The history and doctrines of the Old Apostolic Church revealed. Read more about this enigmatic church that originated in South Africa. This is an Apostolic’s experience of this church.
Again, do not read Irving in the Darby (Dispensasionalist) manner. Tim Grass on Irving in Prisoners of Hope commented as follows on Irving:...in which he portrayed the Second Coming as Imminent, altough not literal." AL Drummond in his book on Edward Irving wrote: "The sage of Evangelical hope of seeing the world's conversion and a gradual progress into the millennial age for a pessimist which only foresaw a steady decline until all the institutions of society should be overthrown and destroyed, a decline which the Church would share unless, it were afforded supernatural assistance." p97 On Babylon and Infidelity Foredoomed" Tim Grass state on p98 that Irving did not "view the Second Coming" literally On the Preliminary Discourse (1833) Grass (p100) state "...that Christ would prepare another ark of testimony, and would probably use faitful Gentiles to bring about revival among the Jews (God's elect, not natural Jews): This outpouring of the latter rain would lead to opposition, antichristianity against the Gentiles and infidelity against the Jews. The Albury Conference stated that (p101) that the "present Christian Dispensation is not to pass insensibly into the millennial state by gratial increase of the preaching of the Gospels; but that it is to be terminated by judgements, ending in the destruction of the visible Church and polity, in the same manner as the Jewish dispensation has been terminated. The Albury Conference also stated that the judgement will principally, and exclusively fall upon Christendom. Later (105) Grass state that Irving believed a remnant of the faithful in the Christian Church will be called to separate from the apostate religion (Christianity) in the face of imminent judgement. To sum it all up, Irving stated that Christianity would collapse in similar manner as has happened with the Jewish religion in the first century. The Christian Church would be destroyed from within itself. The faithful will be called out of it, and would become the new Spiritual Israel (OAC) and it would be under the protection of God. In 1823 as Irving described, was the start of the Apostolic Movement that led to the formation of the Church Gathered under Apostles in 1833. Irving calculated then a period of 40 years wherein the Apostolic Church will have been totally restored. That would mean that the final act of restoration was the introduction of serving the Sacraments to the dead. As Irving did predicted, the Christian Church is now currently on a path of self-destruction, and it is clearly evident in the state it is in. Above quotations is from Prisoners of Hope, by C Gribben, et all. Paternoster Press. 2004. Tim Grass is currently the foremost expert on Edward Irving.
In April/May 1826 Irving spoke at a London Hibernian Society meeting held to discuss Ireland and Catholic Emancipation. His address in its published form was called “The Cause and the Remedy of Ireland’s Evil Condition.” He had used as his text Revelation 9:20–21, which spoke of those who refused to repent in spite of the plagues inflicted upon them. He sympathized with the Irish people in their sad state. Their condition was caused, he believed, not by governments, but by “some disordered state of the inward organs of spiritual life, and the continual administration of unwholesome food to the soul’s necessities, rather than by the operation of any outward cause.” Thus the Catholic Church was the real cause of the problems, for “the root of the evil is in the [people’s] religion.” His solution to Ireland’s ills was threefold: the “preaching of the living Word,” the distribution of “the written Word,” and genuine, uncompromised Christian education in the schools (Irving, “Cause and the Remedy,” in Irving, CW, 3:430–34, 468). Irving was not a friend of Catholic emancipation or democracy (Oliphant, Life, 1:229).
Edward Irving proclaimed that the recent events in France and beyond were clearly predicted in the book of Revelation and in Daniel (Irving, Babylon, 1:191–93, 218–26, 233–34, 240–41; 2:11–35). In addition, he dubbed the papacy the beast of Revelation, a common belief throughout Protestant history that Irving feared was being watered down (Irving, Babylon, 1:26, 206–208). In fact, throughout this book Irving was highly negative about Catholicism, he viewed it as Babylon. He also expected that Christ would return soon and set up an earthly Millennium (Irving, Babylon, 1:32, 192, 205–206; 2:8, 138–47, 155–56). Indeed, he even went as far as to say that he expected the Jews to return to Palestine by 1847 (Irving, Babylon, 2:225–28) and that Christ would come back by 1868 (Irving, Babylon, 1:173–75, 2:152, 218–19).
However, Irving did express some doubts as to whether Christ would return and reign in a “personal or corporeal” sense (Irving, Babylon, 2:168–69. Also see 2:150). In other words, he was unsure whether Christ would reign from heaven or on earth during the Millennium. This is the spiritual interpretation which you’re referring to which is nothing like the OAC’s interpretation of “spiritual”.
He was sure that the days in which they lived were “the last time, because it is written [2 Pet 3:3–4], ‘there shall come in the last days scoffers saying, “Where is the hope of his coming?”’” (Irving, “Dedication,” in Ben-Ezra, Coming, 1:i–ii.)
I don’t know how well stocked your library is, but you may also want to add the following books to your reading list: ‘Trial of Mr Edward Irving before the Presbytery of Annan’ - Dumfries, 1833 ‘Edward Irving Reconsidered; The Man, His Controversies, and the Pentecostal Movement’ - David Malcolm Bennet
Like I said, Irving was a false prophet. I have way more regard for the Bible than Irving’s books.
The scans of the above pages are not my quotes; they are direct scans from Edward Irving’s book (September 1828). You say you’ve read his book, surely then you have his book and you’re able to compare it word for word?
Exodus 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit [it] for ever.
Each galaxy contains 300 billion stars and the Laniakea Super Cluster consist of 150 000 galaxies in an observable universe 200 billion galaxies. The seed of Abraham have not yet reached a fraction of that.
Written by one of the greatest theologians that ever lived:
The times and the fullness of the times, so often mentioned in the New Testament, I consider as referring to the great period numbered by times ; the days, to the thirty and the forty-five days by which the course of the Lord’s purposes overwent the three times and a half. Of these days, I should consider the forty-five days to be the last of the days in which these great events are to be revealed. Now if this reasoning be correct, as there can be little doubt that the one thousand two hundred and sixty days concluded in the year 1792, and the thirty additional days in the year 1823, we are already entered upon the last days, and the ordinary life of a man will carry many of us to the end of them.
THE LAST DAYS by the Rev. Edward Irving in the Introductory Discourse, pages 23-24
Wow Spock wannabe, you extrapolated all of that from a single verse?
Nowhere in the Bible will you read of galaxies, galaxies were only defined with the invention of the telescope long after the Bible was written. For thousands of years people believed the universe consisted only of the earth, sun, moon and stars. Even what we would call planets today appeared as stars in ancient times. So when the Bible speaks of stars, it’s referring to celestial bodies visible to the naked eye shining as lights in the night sky.
The word stars is translated from כּוֹכָב kôkâb/ko-kawb' - Probably from the same as H3522 (in the sense of rolling) or H3554 (in the sense of blazing); a star (as round or as shining); figuratively a prince: - star ([-gazer]).
When Moses says: “Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel…” then he is recalling Genesis.
Genesis 15:4-6 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
How many stars do you think were visible to Abram when the Lord told him to look toward heaven? Please note, Abram didn’t use a telescope and a galaxy wasn’t part of his vocabulary.
Again, do not read Irving in the Darby (Dispensasionalist) manner.
ReplyDeleteTim Grass on Irving in Prisoners of Hope commented as follows on Irving:...in which he portrayed the Second Coming as Imminent, altough not literal."
AL Drummond in his book on Edward Irving wrote: "The sage of Evangelical hope of seeing the world's conversion and a gradual progress into the millennial age for a pessimist which only foresaw a steady decline until all the institutions of society should be overthrown and destroyed, a decline which the Church would share unless, it were afforded supernatural assistance." p97
On Babylon and Infidelity Foredoomed" Tim Grass state on p98 that Irving did not "view the Second Coming" literally
On the Preliminary Discourse (1833) Grass (p100) state "...that Christ would prepare another ark of testimony, and would probably use faitful Gentiles to bring about revival among the Jews (God's elect, not natural Jews): This outpouring of the latter rain would lead to opposition, antichristianity against the Gentiles and infidelity against the Jews.
The Albury Conference stated that (p101) that the "present Christian Dispensation is not to pass insensibly into the millennial state by gratial increase of the preaching of the Gospels; but that it is to be terminated by judgements, ending in the destruction of the visible Church and polity, in the same manner as the Jewish dispensation has been terminated. The Albury Conference also stated that the judgement will principally, and exclusively fall upon Christendom.
Later (105) Grass state that Irving believed a remnant of the faithful in the Christian Church will be called to separate from the apostate religion (Christianity) in the face of imminent judgement.
To sum it all up, Irving stated that Christianity would collapse in similar manner as has happened with the Jewish religion in the first century. The Christian Church would be destroyed from within itself. The faithful will be called out of it, and would become the new Spiritual Israel (OAC) and it would be under the protection of God.
In 1823 as Irving described, was the start of the Apostolic Movement that led to the formation of the Church Gathered under Apostles in 1833. Irving calculated then a period of 40 years wherein the Apostolic Church will have been totally restored. That would mean that the final act of restoration was the introduction of serving the Sacraments to the dead.
As Irving did predicted, the Christian Church is now currently on a path of self-destruction, and it is clearly evident in the state it is in.
Above quotations is from Prisoners of Hope, by C Gribben, et all. Paternoster Press. 2004.
Tim Grass is currently the foremost expert on Edward Irving.
In April/May 1826 Irving spoke at a London Hibernian Society meeting held to discuss Ireland and Catholic Emancipation. His address in its published form was called “The Cause and the Remedy of Ireland’s Evil Condition.” He had used as his text Revelation 9:20–21, which spoke of those who refused to repent in spite of the plagues inflicted upon them. He sympathized with the Irish people in their sad state. Their condition was caused, he believed, not by governments, but by “some disordered state of the inward organs of spiritual life, and the continual administration of unwholesome food to the soul’s necessities, rather than by the operation of any outward cause.” Thus the Catholic Church was the real cause of the problems, for “the root of the evil is in the [people’s] religion.” His solution to Ireland’s ills was threefold: the “preaching of the living Word,” the distribution of “the written Word,” and genuine, uncompromised Christian education in the schools (Irving, “Cause and the Remedy,” in Irving, CW, 3:430–34, 468). Irving was not a friend of Catholic emancipation or democracy (Oliphant, Life, 1:229).
DeleteEdward Irving proclaimed that the recent events in France and beyond were clearly predicted in the book of Revelation and in Daniel (Irving, Babylon, 1:191–93, 218–26, 233–34, 240–41; 2:11–35). In addition, he dubbed the papacy the beast of Revelation, a common belief throughout Protestant history that Irving feared was being watered down (Irving, Babylon, 1:26, 206–208). In fact, throughout this book Irving was highly negative about Catholicism, he viewed it as Babylon. He also expected that Christ would return soon and set up an earthly Millennium (Irving, Babylon, 1:32, 192, 205–206; 2:8, 138–47, 155–56). Indeed, he even went as far as to say that he expected the Jews to return to Palestine by 1847 (Irving, Babylon, 2:225–28) and that Christ would come back by 1868 (Irving, Babylon, 1:173–75, 2:152, 218–19).
However, Irving did express some doubts as to whether Christ would return and reign in a “personal or corporeal” sense (Irving, Babylon, 2:168–69. Also see 2:150). In other words, he was unsure whether Christ would reign from heaven or on earth during the Millennium. This is the spiritual interpretation which you’re referring to which is nothing like the OAC’s interpretation of “spiritual”.
He was sure that the days in which they lived were “the last time, because it is written [2 Pet 3:3–4], ‘there shall come in the last days scoffers saying, “Where is the hope of his coming?”’” (Irving, “Dedication,” in Ben-Ezra, Coming, 1:i–ii.)
I don’t know how well stocked your library is, but you may also want to add the following books to your reading list:
‘Trial of Mr Edward Irving before the Presbytery of Annan’ - Dumfries, 1833
‘Edward Irving Reconsidered; The Man, His Controversies, and the Pentecostal Movement’ - David Malcolm Bennet
Like I said, Irving was a false prophet. I have way more regard for the Bible than Irving’s books.
Another interesting question: Are you quoting from the 1828 edition or the 1850 "Bonar" edition?
ReplyDeleteI suggest you use the 1828 edition. Make sure of it.
The scans of the above pages are not my quotes; they are direct scans from Edward Irving’s book (September 1828). You say you’ve read his book, surely then you have his book and you’re able to compare it word for word?
DeleteEven Paul the Octopus was more gifted as a prophet than what Edward Irving or any other so-called prophet in the OAC could ever hope to be…..
ReplyDeleteThis is the Laniakea Super Cluster. It is proof that the "End Times" is a myth.
ReplyDeleteExodus 32:13
Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit [it] for ever.
Each galaxy contains 300 billion stars and the Laniakea Super Cluster consist of 150 000 galaxies in an observable universe 200 billion galaxies.
The seed of Abraham have not yet reached a fraction of that.
DO THE MATH.
Written by one of the greatest theologians that ever lived:
DeleteThe times and the fullness of the times, so often mentioned in the New Testament, I consider as referring to the great period numbered by times ; the days, to the thirty and the forty-five days by which the course of the Lord’s purposes overwent the three times and a half. Of these days, I should consider the forty-five days to be the last of the days in which these great events are to be revealed. Now if this reasoning be correct, as there can be little doubt that the one thousand two hundred and sixty days concluded in the year 1792, and the thirty additional days in the year 1823, we are already entered upon the last days, and the ordinary life of a man will carry many of us to the end of them.
THE LAST DAYS by the Rev. Edward Irving in the Introductory Discourse, pages 23-24
Wow Spock wannabe, you extrapolated all of that from a single verse?
DeleteNowhere in the Bible will you read of galaxies, galaxies were only defined with the invention of the telescope long after the Bible was written. For thousands of years people believed the universe consisted only of the earth, sun, moon and stars. Even what we would call planets today appeared as stars in ancient times. So when the Bible speaks of stars, it’s referring to celestial bodies visible to the naked eye shining as lights in the night sky.
The word stars is translated from כּוֹכָב
kôkâb/ko-kawb' - Probably from the same as H3522 (in the sense of rolling) or H3554 (in the sense of blazing); a star (as round or as shining); figuratively a prince: - star ([-gazer]).
When Moses says: “Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel…” then he is recalling Genesis.
Genesis 15:4-6
And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir;
but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. And he brought him forth abroad, and said,
Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them:
and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
How many stars do you think were visible to Abram when the Lord told him to look toward heaven? Please note, Abram didn’t use a telescope and a galaxy wasn’t part of his vocabulary.
How many stars can you see on a clear moonless night?
READ THE BIBLE.
@ Irvingist, Edward Irving was clearly a false prophet.
Delete