Thursday, 1 June 2017

Doctrine - OAC's version of Jesus


Your “owergestelde” has spoken...

The OAC Confession of Faith states that they believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. OAC members will also freely proclaim that they believe in Jesus Christ and that they believe He is the High Priest of their church. On the surface these statements are exactly what one would expect from a Christian organization, and to any outsider such statements would not raise any eyebrows. That is, until you start to scratch beneath the surface and realize OAC members are not referring to the historical and Biblical Jesus of Nazareth who was physically crucified approximately 2,000 years ago.

When OAC members refer to “Jesus Christ”, then they’re actually referring to themselves collectively. The “Jesus Christ” that the OAC believe in is not the same historical and Biblical Jesus Christ that Christians believe in. OAC members refer to Christians who believe in Jesus as the “world”. The OAC believe they are the Jesus that has returned even though the Old Apostolic Church was only registered for the first time in 1927 after splitting away from the New Apostolic Church.

The OACapostolate” explains the occurrence of the birth of Jesus as follows:
“...1.8.1. Joseph represents Man, and Mary the receptive heart or mind of man.
( Read Eph 2:13-22)
1.8.2. The birth of Christ, the gift of God, takes place by the seed of gospel being sown in the mind of man (Mary) to grow and develop there, until the “NEW MAN” is born and become visible.
1.8.3. The “NEW MAN” is the spiritual being which concentrates on spiritual things that are eternal. ( Read 2 Cor 4:18)
1.8.4. Mary gives birth to Jesus, the Bread of Life, in Bethlehem, which means “EATING PLACE” or “HOUSE OF BREAD”.
1.8.5. The Shepherds represent those who take care of their sheep ( their church members, souls) in the night ( darkness, ignorance).
1.8.6. Christ, the Sun of Righteousness ( which shines in the Heavenly Day), has risen to drive out all darknesd.
1.8.7. Simeon and Anna in the temple represent the old man, who reveal the “NEW MAN” , the “DEED” in their activities in the Church of God....”

The OAC Sealing document under the heading ‘THE REBIRTH: SECONDLY BY THE BLOOD  states: “...through the sacrificing of his blood today for me through his anointed officers who labored, sacrificed themselves for me by doing so were my transgressions blotted out I was reconciled onto God...”

The OAC Sealing document under the heading ‘THE REBIRTH: THIRDLY BY THE SPIRIT’ states: “...I am not the apostle but merely a servant of the Apostle (Hebrews 3 declares (“Consider the Apostle and High Priest of our Profession Christ Jesus) which is the entire church...”

The current teaching in the OAC Home Tuition Calendar teaches: “...the ascension of Jesus Christ for us and our ascension with Him, as members of His glorified body, who had risen from the grave. The ascension of Jesus Christ is an important spiritual anchor for the Church. It already started when He saw the multitudes and then went up on the mountain to bless them, for they are the salt of the earth and the light of the world...”

“...Jesus said that He is the living bread that came down from heaven, and if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. He said that the bread that He shall give is His flesh, which He shall give for the life of the world. Our neighbour and fellow members in His body are the true bread from heaven and eating (utilizing) them, according to God’s will, shall give us life forevermore...”

According to an OAC member, “apostle” Nong said the following: “…Apostle Nong said that Jesus is the anointed spirit within each of us .. And Christ is the body which is all of us.. And Apostle Nong also said that those who believe that Jesus was a baby and a natural human being was in the wrong school of study.. Why would we question the Apostle that was sent to us by God?…”

According to another OAC member, “apostle” Modise said the following: “…Apostle Modise once asked “was Jesus tall, short, thin, fat, etc?” – though he was born physically it doesn’t matter anymore to us because we have come to understand the full spiritual interpretation that Christ is the word that became flesh in us n whoever so believes un this word will inherit the kingdom amongst us...”

An OACoverseer” said: “...We are the Lord Jesus Christ...”

An OACpriest” wrote: “...The man Jesus who lived 2000 years ago never stood up again. Rather, a resurrection in a glorified body. So there was one now many. Jesus is born and is the first to accomplish the plan of salvation. And does everything as predicted so that the scripture can be fulfilled. He is crucified to the natural. On the cross He tells his mother. Mother behold your son son behold your mother. A sign that the Son is going to become a body now. Where He was one, it will now be many. Jesus says. In Your hands I command My Spirit. Many think the hands of the Father are far away with a God with a beard and a great book. But the hands where his Spirit is are his Apostles for whom he has given all his power and might .. power over unclean spirits. Power to heal. Power to bind in heaven and earth. Understanding the Scriptures. Jesus himself explained that if a seed dies in the earth then a plant comes up with many seeds. The plant is the same as the seed. Jesus was the seed and died. A new plant that was raised a glorified body or oac. Jesus had plus minus 300 followers. But the resurrected body of the Church takes up thousands of souls every year. So the works are greater. The Jesus who died on a wooden cross at that time did not rise to the flesh but rather in us that are born again...”

OAC "priest" denies Jesus' resurrection, he hasn't read Luke 24:36-43 etc. yet

Another OACpriest” wrote: “...Whatever your concerns, worries or desires are, go to the man that God has placed in front of you and allow him to save you with his advice. He is not simply the man you see with your eyes, but God has seen fit to place the only saviour FOR YOU, within him. Don’t look at him as your “over placed” Priest but as your servant, your guide, your friend and your altar. Ask him for all you want because God has placed himself within that man especially for YOU. If you are too proud or ashamed to tell him the truth or ask him what you want, that’s your loss until the day you try it. Give him all your confessions, all your concerns and thank him sometimes if you have come to understand that what you have received in life is not by your own cleverness, or good works. It is all by the grace of God. Sometimes it is hard to see the shepherd God has put there for us. Maybe he is too ugly, too poor, too old or uneducated to my mind of reasoning. But within him is the Lord. Put your trust in him. Forget the Jesus of imagination who has no flesh or human form. Christ is within us and has come. Love the people you see who are more or less the same as you. They are called Apostolics they are the living body of Christ...”

Another OACpriest” wrote: “...As Christ is the Apostle gift in man, we do say Apostel Scholtz and so it not strange to say Christ Jesus. We don't say [name withheld] Brother. We say Brother [name withheld]...
...I am also a Son of God and am known as Priest [name withheld]. Jesus of Nazareth showed you at the last supper that his body will in future consist of many members yet one body...
...The Son Jesus Christ is come and that is what we confess, so Jesus of Nazareth was the first vessel in which the Christ was manifested. We know Jesus Christ who God has sent presently and if you don't know, you need to be born again of water and Spirit...
...I have never been Jesus and am only part of the Jesus body in which the Christ lives. If you knew Jesus Christ of today, you will know the body of Christ is the Jesus today...
...1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Jesus is the same always because all flesh is the same; 1Pe 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away...
...Eternal life is through my spiritual parents yes. Although the gift is in you, you still need to be part of the body. Should you allow the word to become flesh in your life, then you are putting on Jesus Christ...”

An OACunderdeacon” wrote: “...We must not cling to the "Jesus" of 2000 years ago, remember, His "glorification" means "multiplication" ... so today we are that very body of Christ! So, because we are collectively a very large body, the wonders are so much greater, still the work of God through His Son ... and we are His Son in today's time...”

OAC member #1 wrote: “...Dit is Hoekom Ek Psalm 23 Altyd Lees ek het net een HERDER en Dit is God(My PRIESTER)...”
For those of you who don’t understand Afrikaans, this member is saying “…That is Why I always read Psalm 23 I have just one SHEPHERD and It is God(My PRIEST)...”

OAC member #2 wrote: “...it is o paramount importance to be obedient to the word of your over placed; Priest...”

OAC member #3 wrote: “...Onthou net een ding. Daar was nooit n physical Jesus op aarde nie... Jesus praat deur gesindhede, wat diere of mens kan wees... wat nie die physical human body is nie...”
For those of you who don’t understand Afrikaans, this member is saying “...Just remember one thing. There was never a physical Jesus on earth... Jesus speaks through attitudes, which could be animals or a person... which isn’t the physical human body...”

OAC member #4 wrote: “…The world out there are still awaiting the return of Jesus Christ and yet, He has arrived in this wonderful body that we are members in particular of…”

OAC member #5 wrote: “…I am equal to Jesus, so I am also the Lord and so you are and everyone in our church…”

OAC member #6 wrote: “…Jesus Christ was/is/will be coming in the flesh ( human mind) as the incorruptible seed that is sown by the Sower. Jesus Christ performing miracles and wonders within your mind even today as it was in the beginning…”

Another OAC member regarding the real Jesus mockingly asked: “…tell me your human flesh jesus did he tell what colour he was lol was he red or white black brown orange lol what was his skincolour i wonder if he was a japanese lmklaaa then mabe he was a robot mannekie who can walk on water lol no he will shortcircuit oh my gosh what now…”

Regarding the Immaculate Conception, an OAC member wrote: “…And this I declare, I can not become pregnant with WORDS, but SPIRITUALLY I can and give birth to our Lord and saviour And sing to the MOUNTAINS“ my SOUL doth Magnify the Lord”. Miraculous conception indeed, please tell me again how does it happen naturally, My Lord and saviour did not come about this way, in a manger in the crib of my mind, a filthy stable, can you see the chaos and void, whereupon the spirit hovered over the face of the deep of my life, let there be light and it was so-----purely spiritual do not mix spirit and nature…”

John 14:6 being twisted out of context to glorify a man-made organization

An ex-OACelder” wrote: “...If any minister questioned something regarding the sermon, they were revealing a "devil spirit" and not a "child spirit", and you accept everything being preached by your "overplaced" (the ministry above you)...”

Former OAC member #1 wrote: “…I also can’t see why I must ask the priest for something, or to grant me a safe journey, as I pray to God myself and ask Him...”

Former OAC member #2 wrote: “...If a member cannot attend a meeting (say for example he has to work) then he is expected to inform his Priest so that he can be remembered in the opening prayers and still be “under the blessing”. Yes I know this sounds ridiculous...”

“...for any member of the church God is his superior officer. So, for Brothers, Sisters, Underdeacons – God is the Priest. For Priests, God is the Elder. For Elders, God is the fourfold office (Overseers – who actually hold 2 offices; that of Pastor and Teacher, Evangelists – responsible for all evangelical work and testimony, Prophets – responsible for all Prophetic Gifts dreams and vision). So if Seth came in the “supervisory role” then he was God at that time. I know this sounds silly. However you must understand how OAC members are brainwashed to believe these things...”

Former OAC member #3 wrote: “…I often recall a priest pinching the flesh on his arm and saying, "THIS is Jesus," meaning that Jesus is one's flesh, one's earthly body. People would laugh at those who prayed to 'liewe Jesus', regarding them as being in the darkness, uninformed, not having a 'spiritual eye', thus being 'carnal minded'. What a complete distortion of the truth...”

“…If you were a brother or unmarried sister, you had to go to the priest that had been allocated to serve the area in the community where you lived. This was regarded as 'facing East'. You could not go to any other priest, even if he was in your community. The OAC believes that the word of your 'owergestelde' was God to you. This 'facing East' principle applied to every member in the church - the underdeacon had to go to his allocated priest, the priest had to go to his allocated elder, etc. I always wondered who the apostle went to; who was his 'owergestelde'? This OAC understanding of "the Word was [is] God", is a complete distortion of John 1:1 (KJV): "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." My first realisation that the OAC was not 'the way', was when I asked my priest's blessing to heal my son through a healthy lifestyle and natural remedies (vegan diet, pure water, sunlight, fresh air). The priest scoffed at this idea, whereas I knew a sister in another community who had received her priest's blessing to do the same thing. I reasoned that in Scripture we learn that He is the Alpha and the Omega, that He never changes (Revelation 22:13), so if the priest's word was God, both I and the sister in the other community would have received the same word. I thank God for opening my eyes to the deception in the church I had loved so long. No human man's word is God. That is sheer blasphemy to think your word is God to another human being. My family would have been lost had I remained in the OAC. I had met some of the most sincere, unselfish people in that church, but my loyalty should be towards God, and not towards man...”

When reading through the misleading statements from the OACapostolate” and OACofficers”, it’s no wonder that loyal OAC members have a really hard time believing that Jesus was physically resurrected after His crucifixion. They blindly accept whatever their “owergestelde” tells them without question.



OAC members don't believe in the resurrection

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Strangely enough, the OACapostolate” decided in 2001 that Jesus did physically exist in the flesh (as a human). They can’t claim to be the original church that Jesus started if they deny that Jesus ever existed. The OAC version of history is a whole different matter altogether and was discussed in another post. Despite the “apostolate” decision in 2001 there are still major debates going on within the OAC as to whether Jesus really existed. Most members seem to believe that Jesus was never physically born and that He must be viewed “spiritually”.

A church debating Jesus' existence

The “miracles” performed by the OAC “Jesus” is understood “spiritually”. For example, a “dead” OAC member is someone who doesn’t attend the OAC activities. When members visit them they’re already “stinking” which means they’re complaining about why they’re not attending the church activities. Then when they hear the latest teaching from the “apostle”, the spoken words supposedly breathe “life” back into the “dead” and they start going back to church again – a miracle. All the miracles performed in the Bible are interpreted allegorically.

OAC members love their church but doubt the real Jesus

OAC members commonly believe the body of Christ and Jesus Christ is one and the same. There appears to be confusion and a misunderstanding regarding the difference between a bride and bridegroom.

  • A bridegroom refers to a man on his wedding day, or just before and after the event.
  • A bride refers to a woman on her wedding day, or just before and after the event.
  • Consummation means the man and woman become one flesh (Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5-6, Mark 10:8, 1 Corinthians 6:16, Ephesians 5:31). They are still a man and a woman, two individuals, despite being one flesh.
  • The husband is the head of the wife (Ephesians 5:23), this does not mean that the wife loses her own pretty head on her shoulders.
  • Because they are one flesh the husband ought to love his wife’s body as his own (Ephesians 5:28), her body is now also his body. This does not mean his body ceases to exist or vice versa, they belong to one another by being loyal to one another.


Now keeping the above in mind, read the following verses very carefully:
Ephesians 5:23-33 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church:
and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh;
but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
This is a great mystery:
but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself;
and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Jesus Christ isn’t the OAC or any other church because He is the head of the body, the church (Colossians 1:18). Using matrimony as an example we can understand that Jesus is the Bridegroom (Matthew 9:14-15, Mark 2:18-20, Luke 5:33-35, John 3:27-29, Ephesians 5:23-32) and the church is His bridesmaid also known as the body of Christ (Romans 12:5, 1 Corinthians 10:16-17, 1 Corinthians 12:12-27, Ephesians 4:11-13). When read in context, body of Christ means the body (church) belonging to Jesus Christ. Notice that none of these verses refer to any “gift” within you as being your soul’s “bridegroom”.

According to Strong’s, the word “church” in the New Testament is translated from the Greek word ekklēsia and is defined as:
a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.

We should always be ready by having enough oil in our lamps like the five wise virgins because we know neither the day nor the hour wherein the bridegroom (Son of man) will come (Matthew 25:1-13). Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb (Revelation 19:7-9).

Catechism of the Old Apostolic Church of Africa…Part 2; Question 27 (pages 62-63):
“Has Christ already come, or do we still expect him?” (Sic)
Ans. (a) Because the world expects that Christ will come on a natural cloud, they still look forward to his coming. From Matt. 16 v. 28, it is however clear, that Christ must already have come…”

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

The OAC confuse this verse with the restoration of the kingdom to Israel and Jesuspromised return (Acts 1:6-11). Jesus shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of His disciples forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God before He was taken up (Acts 1:2-5). The same Jesus, which was taken up from His disciples into heaven, shall so come in like manner as they saw him go into heaven (Acts 1:11).

There are parallel verses to Matthew 16:28, in Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27 we read of the kingdom of God which will be seen by some of those standing there before they taste of death. All three gospels give an account of Jesus’ transfiguration after He made that statement. Peter, James and John were eyewitnesses on the mountain when Jesus spoke to Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:1-13, Mark 9:2-13, Luke 9:28-36).

Peter, being one of those present when Jesus made that statement, saw for himself the transfiguration of Jesus on the mountain. Not with cunningly devised fables, but as an eyewitness.

2 Peter 1:16-18 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Later, the disciples saw the pouring out of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost (Acts 2:1-13) and the kingdom of God is righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost (Romans 14:17). Jesus said if any man keeps His saying they will never see death (John 8:51). This then is a grave warning to those who keep not His saying and will taste of the second death which is the lake of fire (Revelation 2:11, Revelation 20:6, Revelation 20:14, Revelation 21:8).

Catechism of the Old Apostolic Church of Africa…Part 2; Question 27 (pages 62-63):
“Has Christ already come, or do we still expect him?” (Sic)
 Ans. (b) From 2 Tim. 4 v. 7-8 it is clear that Christ must already have come during Apostle Paul’s life on earth…”

2 Timothy 4:7-8 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

These verses need to be read in context.

  • Paul starts the chapter with “…I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom…” (2 Timothy 4:1).
  • Paul was writing about his own personal departure “…For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand…” (2 Timothy 4:6).
  • Later Paul writes “…Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ…” (Titus 2:13).


Jesus’ apostles were contemporaries of Paul, and Jesus appeared to Paul after His resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:4-8). Stephen was a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost (Acts 6:5-6), and when he was martyred he saw the heavens opened and Jesus standing on the right hand of God (Acts 7:55-59). The same Saul (Paul’s Aramaic/Hebrew name) who witnessed the stoning of Stephen (Acts 7:58, Acts 22:20) encountered Jesus en-route to Damascus (Acts 9:3-7, Acts 22:6-9). The men journeying with him to Damascus heard a voice but didn’t see who was speaking. They also saw the light from heaven and were afraid. These appearances by Jesus are not to be confused with the thousand year reign (Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:3-13, Revelation 20:1-6). Note that Jesus did not appear to Stephen or Paul as a church or OAC cloud of witnesses. Neither did any of Jesus’ disciples claim to be Jesus, individually or collectively.

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

The above verse is popularly used by some OAC members as a proof text in their arguments. Great emphasis is placed on the words “is come” as if to imply the present tense, and the OAC member in flesh in front of you is supposedly Jesus Christ. Please note that this verse is quoted from the King James Version (1611) also known as the Authorised Version which is officially recognised and used by the OAC.

The verse in the KJV was translated from the following Greek Textus Receptus:
ἐν τούτῳ γινώσκετε τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ θεοῦ· πᾶν πνεῦμα ὃ ὁμολογεῖ Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐστιν

ἐληλυθότα = elēlythota = having come or has come (Strong’s)

It’s the same word used in Acts 18:2 and in both instances it is used in the context of past tense. The Afrikaans Bible (AFR 33-57), the Zulu Bible (1st edition 77) and the New King James Version (Thomas Nelson 83) which are also officially recognized by the OAC also uses past tense.

False apostles and false prophets cannot forge or counterfeit the coming of the Son of man, the only way they can try is by attempting to deceive people with false interpretations. Jesus warns us not to follow them because they will say “Lo here” and then try convincing people that they (false prophets and false churches) are Christ.

A picture paints a thousand words

Matthew 24:23-28 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Through false teachings the false Christs and false prophets try to make themselves the source of your eternal life, instead of Jesus. They exalt themselves, they exalt their organization, and they exalt their “spiritual teachings” to the place of Jesus over your life.

There is only one way for salvation, by man comes death but by Jesus Christ comes life eternal (1 Corinthians 15:20-23). There is only one Jesus and He is the ONLY Messiah.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The OAC is not the source of eternal life. OAC officers are not the source of eternal life. The OAC sealing service is not the source of eternal life. Mysteries or “spiritual” interpretations are not the source of eternal life. Jesus the Christ is the ONLY source of eternal life. He offers this wonderful gift to anyone who believes in Him.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

False Christs and false prophets will try and teach you that if you want to come to God and have a personal relationship with Him, you have to submit to their leadership and follow their teachings. In this way they try to make themselves the “way” to God. They will try to teach you to discard everything you learned outside of their organization and that everyone else are the “world”. They will claim that their teachings are unique and exalt themselves and their teachings as the truth. They won’t preach Jesus as the only Messiah and they will try and convince you that the real Jesus is a figment of man’s imagination. They won’t encourage you to read the whole Bible because they don’t trust that the Holy Spirit will teach you as you read. They will exalt themselves as your main teacher and “guru” to understand the Bible.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit would testify of Him and glorify Him (John 15:26, John 16:13-14). The name of Jesus is above every name; Jesus Christ is Lord (Philippians 2:9-11).

1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

See if you can see the name of the OAC or any other church or organization for that matter in the following verses:

Acts 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other:
for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


193 comments:

  1. Only an idiot will approve the use of so-called natural remedies. There is a word for remedies that work: medicine.

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  2. if Klibbe was send by the NAC and believed in their confession of faith(October 1916 letter), who, why and when did the OAC changed this believe. Do you really think its possible for a human being to have twisted the truth and "enslaved" an entire nation for more than a 100 years without some sort of divine help? Just asking

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good question, I’d also love to know who changed the belief. Of all the Irvingite churches, it’s unique to the OAC and the Apostelamt Juda which later became Apostelamt Jesu Christi. The founder of Apostelamt Juda, “elder” Julius Fischer was excommunicated in 1902 for his views. He believed Jesus Christ had already returned in the re-established “apostle” office and according to him, there was no future second coming. After 1927 these views also somehow crept into the OAC belief system which I think over time got progressively worse. It may have started with the Ninows, there were after all three “apostles” from this one family. And yes, I believe a human being is able to twist the truth in any cult, that’s exactly how cults operate and why they are called cults. Feel free to read some of the links I placed on the right. Look at Jim Jones and how he was able to convince an entire congregation to drink poison and die in South America. The OAC are not an entire nation and make up a very small percentage of the population in comparison to other churches. The OAC is less than a 100 years old. Thanks for asking.

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    2. Can you please motivate this statement?
      It is clear from evidence that the NAC deviated drastically from the original theology after 6 December 1895. The first action of the German branch was the declaration by Krebs that he is the Chief Apostle.
      The second was the interference in the organization of the Dutch Church who by right could choose an apostle in accordance to the will of late Apostle Schwartz. This decision to choose an own apostle was upheld by the Dutch court.
      The third was that the successor of Krebs, Hermann Niehaus banned all prophetiv gifts and refused to ordain Prophets.
      The fourth was a return to the Bible in a natural and not allegorical manner. This led to the NAC accepting the return of Jesus Christ as a future literal event, and the eventual "Message of Bischoff".
      By 1913, the NAC lost all contact with all foreign Apostolic Churches, except for Indonesia where the NAC had problems keeping Apostle Sadrach under control, as he still promoted the Bible as a spiritual book. Removing Sadrach from office would also have meant the loss of the entire Javanese church, which eventually happened after Sadrach died and the Javanese church refused to accept the Chief Apostle's choice for Apostle.
      The NAC was plagued by schisms until 1955 due to the drastic changes in its doctrine and management.
      Another question is how could two churches, and later three (due to Soviet occupation in East Germany) develop independently from each other and develop the precise same theology. One of these churches was in Soviet controlled East Germany, and had no contact with the west.
      The claim that the OAC is less than 100 years old is false.
      The church was established in South Africa in 1889 with the arrival of Evangelist Klibbe in South Africa. The OAC itself give the date of 1894. The Memorandum of Association was registered in accordance to the Transvaal Companies Act in 1911. The Church that was established in 1911 in accordance with the Companies Act changed its name in 1927 to the Old Apostolic Church. It was not a new Church that was formed.
      Known South African theologian had contact and was influenced by Dutch Reformed ministers that had close contact with Irving, namely; the brother of Apostle Dow, who later returned to England and was ordained an Elder in the Catholic Apostolic Church and John Pears (the town Pearston in the Eastern Cape is named after him). Murray even wrote and promoted that the Kingdom of God has already returned.

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    3. You can read more about “apostle” Sadrach in ‘Christian worship in Reformed Churches past and present’ by Lukas Vischer (pages 183-185) and in ‘Sadrach's community and its contextual roots : a nineteenth century Javanese expression of Christianity’ by Sutarman Soediman Partonadi.
      The OAC is a breakaway (schism) from the NAC and was registered as the OAC in 1927. A branch that falls off a tree loses its claim to the tree’s roots. You’re digressing off the topic of this post with straw man arguments.

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  3. In 1872, Apostle Schwartz published a book "Het Boek Voor Onze Tijd", wherein he discussed the book of Revelation in allegorical terms. He later published another book "Het Hooglied van Salomo", where he also wrote about the Biblical book of Song of Solomon as allegorical. His publication of "100 Statements", also refer to the Bible as allegorical and not literal.
    In his book "Gathered Under Apostles", CG Flegg gives a description of how Jesus Christ as the Head of the Church make Himself known, or manifests through the Fourfold Office (Apostle; Prophet; Evangelist; and Shepard and Teacher).
    In "The Mosaic Tabernacle", Apostle Carlyle writes about Christ being within the Church as the High Priest. This book was the influence on Schwartz in his "Het Boek Voor Onze Tijd", who wrote that there is a comparison between the Biblical books of Daniel, Hebrews and Revelations. Schwartz like Carlyle referred to Christ as the High Priest in the Temple procession, where he uses the instruments (Officers) of the temple. Carlyle wrote his book before 1855.

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    Replies
    1. You can read about the 150 years of the NAC’s history here http://www.nak.org/en/150-years/

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    2. So, you are New Apostolic!

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  4. The following is a quote from "The Mosaic Tabernacle" by Apostle Carlyle. It proofs the following:
    The Catholic Apostolic Church believed in spiritual (allegorical) interpretation of the Bible.
    Christ is within His Church.
    The Church is the Kingdom of God.


    When Moses was charged by God to build the
    Tabernacle, he was again and again commanded, “See
    thou make all things according to the pattern which
    was showed thee in the mount“ (Ex. xxv. 9; xxvi. 30;
    xxvii. 8). This pattern was nothing else than the
    Christian Church, in which, therefore, must be found
    the substance of all those things, the shadows of
    which Moses was to set in the Tabernacle (Acts vii.
    44; Heb.viii. 5). The Tabernacle is, therefore, in all its
    parts, a symbol of the spiritual House of God (1 Pet.
    ii. 5); the Church of the living God (1 Tim. iii. 15); yea,
    of the Body of Christ Himself (Eph. iv. 12-16), in
    which alone God can and will dwell.

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    Replies
    1. This may come as a surprise to you, but there are allegorical meanings in the Bible. I discussed this in more detail here: http://oldapostolicchurchrevealed.blogspot.co.za/2016/08/doctrine-too-vast.html

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    2. I also discussed the kingdom of God here: http://oldapostolicchurchrevealed.blogspot.co.za/2016/08/doctrine-kingdom-of-god_6.html

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  5. Hi. Is there any books available on the Old Apostles.

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  6. I'm glad my church fascinates you so.

    We as Old Apostolic is really a peculiar nation.

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    Replies
    1. I’m glad you found my blog and I’m glad the truth has set me free from your church.

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    2. Yes, a peculiar & false church that should be abolished. I used to be a member of this church, and this church has no idea what the word "love" means. I recently went through a disaster, and this church wouldn’t even lend a helping hand, not even one member from this church even contacted me, to just ask me if I’m ok. The Old Apostolic church is a cult!

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    3. Are you okay now? If you want to chat about the disaster you've been through, you can email me at ExOldApostolic@gmail.com

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  7. I am an 'old apostolic' and i oftentimes wonder, sparked by their behaviour, who(or what)leads the 'officers'................

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    Replies
    1. I was there too my friend and the truth has set me free :-)

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    2. What have you done if the " truth " has set you free to set other's "free" aswell,including those who have been working with you within the OAC Church who are still there to
      "Free" them from the OAC distorted truth and false prophecies?

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    3. Begin by reading the Bible in context and compare the OAC doctrines and teachings with what's written in the Bible. Each of my posts points these out.

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  8. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
    2 John 1:7 KJV
    https://bible.com/bible/1/2jn.1.7.KJV

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    Replies
    1. Yip, there are antichrists who will not acknowledge the coming of Jesus Christ in bodily form. The present participle in Greek implies both the first (Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:20-23) and the second (Acts 1:9-11, 1 Thessalonians 1:5-10) advent of Christ.

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    2. And according to the Facebook poll, two thirds of OAC members are antichrist. That's sad for a church, very sad. When I asked their head office for a formal response, they ducked and dived and avoided answering the question on whether they believed Jesus really existed. Any church with Christ as their Head would've said yes without hesitation or alternative explanations. Thanks for your blog, I'll send you the correspondence I received from an 'Overseer Arrow' at their head office...

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    3. Please send me there reply if you dont mind
      Thanks

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    4. Hi Lara, this is the reply that was sent to Anonymous and then shared with me:

      Jesus of Nazareth a man?

      Thank you for your email regarding the above subject.

      I have not been privy to the debate on social media. And unfortunately, our Church has a policy that does not allow the Church or its Officers to participate formally on social media.

      We cannot restrict individual members from engaging in debates, in their own capacities and sharing their own views. These views are often not the views of the Church. The Church does have a definite stance on the subject which is properly supported by the scriptures.

      Should you wish to discuss the matter with me, formally, I will gladly meet at either your address or our offices at a time that is convenient.

      Kind regards

      The letter was signed by the District Secretary for Gauteng, 19 January 2018.

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  9. I have read, and done or still doing my research , i am a Believer in Jesus Christ, but does it matter what denomination we belong to?

    Is there 1 goal we working towards is the praising the gospel of Jesus and working towards the coming of the Lord.

    Does it matter in what way we proclaim his gospel as long we glorifying his name?

    I have nothing against Denominations i respect each 1 for the way they praise their God...

    Why is OAC a cult?

    i have been to many different denominations and for me i find that i wont think of them as a cult, coming from a service as a visitor i could leave with a teaching, i was at the pentecostal a funeral infact and i left with a teaching, i belong to the NAC and when i leave i leave with a teaching, so isn't that the reason we go to church we go for nourishment, even if you believe you keep service with yourself teaching yourself its also nourishment as long you Goal is set on Jesus Christ...

    In the end you find what you are comfortable with, not by judging and name calling of different denominations.

    There is only one 'holy Christian Church,' of which Christ is the Head, but it is now made up of many denominations ... But faith in Christ is the first criterion of membership in the holy Christian Church, and we feel that such believers can be found in all Christian denominations."

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    Replies
    1. My advice to you is to continue with your research and continue reading your Bible. Compare any “teaching” with what’s written in your Bible and remember, context is important, you can’t hang your entire wardrobe on a single hanger while also using that single hanger to build your entire wardrobe and the entire house…
      You’re right though, God will test your heart, not your label. Spiritual gifts are not literal titles. You mentioned two very important points, firstly being a Believer in Jesus Christ, that’s very important. Because you spoke about the coming of the Lord you clearly believe in the historical and Biblical Jesus Christ. There is no other Messiah; Jesus Christ is our only Lord and Savior.
      I’ve written more than enough posts on this blog for you to compare the OAC doctrines with what’s written in your Bible. I encourage you to be objective and compare any “teaching” you receive from whichever denomination you attend with what’s written in the Bible. Because we’re human with human failings, it’s all the more important to refer back to Scripture; we can very easily feel comfortable with false teachings and lose focus (Proverbs 14:12, Proverbs 16:25). Watch out for little bo-peep sermons that shift the focus from Jesus to man:
      http://www.davidprince.com/2014/06/04/little-bo-peep-sermons/

      If the shoe fits, wear it.

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  10. First of all. Thanks for your post. May our Lord Jesus Christ bless you with more wisdom and passion. I am a younger minister of the word, I have done Diploma in Theology SA, I am a mozambican. I have been so much interested in reaching out two kind of people: OAC & Zionist believers. Because I believe the most important to all human being is Salvation through Jesus Christ. At least your post served as a starter for me because now The OAC beliefs. If you can help me achieve this goal to Loard, please send me whatever in relevant to the following email: mfa.embreconciliacao.mba@gmail.com

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  11. The OAC reached a landmark regarding Jesus of Nazareth this past weekend, the Conference teaching for 2018-2019 states the following:
    God sent His Son to set us free from a selfish and sinful nature and to make us His holy nation. Through the gospel of the Kingdom of God, Jesus Christ made His glorious appearance to us. Although the Son of God has no beginning He was made flesh in Jesus of Nazareth who was naturally born and declared as the Son of God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. [JOH 1:1 and 14; MAR 1:14-15]

    Needless to say, this teaching has drawn sharp criticism from within the OAC, especially those members who adamantly deny that Jesus was ever physically present in human form.

    One member quipped: "Well there you have it;its finally official the OAC says that Jesus of Nasareth was a man that was naturally born. Hell, now I am confused!" He continued "He made His appearance through the gospel! He has no beginning! Yet has an actual birthdate like you and me? Really now!

    This has been a contentious issue for a number of years now, even though the OAC's apostolate did decide in 2001 already that Jesus was a "natural man". It will be interesting to see where this "new teaching" will lead to, will the OAC eventually return back to their founding father's belief that the "natural" Jesus of Nazareth will come back as promised in Acts 1:9-11?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just out of curiosity, which church (denomination ) do you belong to?

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    2. Normally when I’m asked this question, there’s one of two reasons why people would ask this.

      Reason #1 - They’re trying to figure out where I’m coming from and they want to dig up dirt on a specific congregation and try and counter my arguments with ad hominem statements.

      Reason #2 - They’re sincerely looking around for another congregation to attend because their eyes have opened.

      For reason #1, you’re wasting your time trying to pin a man-made label to me as I don’t belong to a denomination, I belong to Jesus Christ of Nazareth. God will test your heart, not your label. I feel free to fellowship with any denomination that has Jesus Christ of Nazareth as their head and gives all honor to God and Jesus Christ of Nazareth as their only Lord and Savior.

      For reason #2, you’re probably looking around for “the true church”? No visible church or denomination is the true church because the bride of Christ is not an institution. The true church is a spiritual entity made up of those who have by grace through faith been brought into a close relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9). The Bible refers to a visible and an invisible church:

      The visible churches are simply gatherings of professing believers (Acts 16:1-5, Romans 16:1-16, etc). The word church is never used to describe a building or an organization.

      The invisible church is a spiritual entity that has close fellowship with Christ, as close as a bride to her husband (Ephesians 5:25-32, Colossians 1:18). This church is made up of an unnamed, unspecified group of individuals that have Christ in common. It cannot be contained, walled in or defined by anything other than its love for Christ and its dedication to Him.

      When choosing a church to attend, it’s important to remember that a gathering of believers should be a place where those who belong to the spiritual entity (invisible church) feel at home. This will be where the Word of God is upheld, honored and preached faithfully. A place where the gospel is proclaimed steadfastly, that feeds and tends the sheep. “Churches” that teach heresy or engage in sin will be entirely bereft of people belonging to the spiritual entity (invisible church) because His sheep know the voice of their Shepherd and will follow Him (John 10:1-21).

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    3. The OAC reached a landmark regarding Jesus of Nazareth this past weekend, the Conference teaching for 2018-2019 states the following:
      Thanks so much for this crucial information

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    4. Eish, when the name or structure of your church becomes more important than the precious Name of Jesus Christ, then you’re going to the wrong church or you’re going to church for all the wrong reasons!!!

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    5. Oudste se gistraand dat alle kerke daar buite in die wereld glo dat Jesus vir hulle sondes gesterf het, toe maak Oudste n voorstel en se kom ons maak al die kerke toe want dit is nie nodig om kerk toe te gaan nie

      (Quigney, ds@ec.oldapostolic.com)

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    6. Translation:
      “Elder said last night that all churches out there in the world believe that Jesus died for their sins, then Elder proposed that we shut down all the churches because it’s no longer necessary to go to church”

      English:
      Dear OAC “Elder”, without Jesus’ death on the cross for our sins, no one would have eternal life. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by Jesus (John 14:6). God, in His grace and mercy, provided a way for us through the shed blood of His perfect Son on the cross. Without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness (Hebrews 9:22). The Law of Moses provided a way for people to be considered “sinless” in the eyes of God by offering animals as a sacrifice for every sin they committed. These sacrifices were only temporary and were a foreshadowing of the perfect once for all sacrifice of Christ on the cross (Hebrews 10:10). Jesus became the ultimate and perfect final sacrifice for our sins (Colossians 1:22; 1 Peter 1:19). The scripture concludes us all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe (Galatians 3:22). By grace are we saved through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9). It’s because we are saved that we do good works; we don’t do good works because we want to get saved. No man can earn salvation, Jesus already paid the price.

      Afrikaans:
      Liewe OAK "Oudste", sonder Jesus se kruisdood vir ons sondes, sou niemand die ewige lewe hê nie. Jesus is die weg en die waarheid en die lewe; niemand kom na die Vader behalwe deur Jesus nie (Johannes 14:6). God het in sy genade en barmhartigheid 'n weg vir ons gegee deur die vergietde bloed van Sy volmaakte Seun aan die kruis. Sonder bloedvergieting vind daar geen vergifnis plaas nie (Hebreërs 9:22). Die wet van Moses het 'n manier gegee vir mense om in die oë van God as "sondeloos" beskou te word deur diere te offer as 'n offer vir elke sonde wat hulle begaan het. Hierdie offers was slegs tydelik en was 'n voorskadu van die perfekte offer van die liggaam van Jesus Christus, net een maal aan die kruis (Hebreërs 10:10). Jesus het die uiteindelike en volmaakte finale offer vir ons sondes geword (Kolossense 1:22; 1 Petrus 1:19). Die Skrif sluit ons almal onder die sonde, sodat die belofte uit die geloof in Jesus Christus aan die gelowiges gegee kon word (Galasiërs 3:22). Uit genade is ons gered deur die geloof, nie uit die werke nie, sodat niemand mag roem nie (Efesiërs 2: 8-9). Dit is omdat ons reeds gered is dat ons goeie werke doen; Ons doen nie goeie werke om gered te word nie. Niemand kan verlossing verdien nie, Jesus het alreeds die prys betaal.

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  12. From the OAC’s HTC today:

    This period’s Home Tuition Calendar deals with the following topics of teaching: 1) the current teaching; 2) the current tuition theme of the Sunday school syllabus – our faith in the three Sacraments –the institution of the Passover as foundation for the sacrament of the Holy Communion: as contained in lesson 24/36.

    Die volgende twee onderwerpe word in die Tuisonderrigkalender vir hierdie tydperk behandel: 1) die huidige lering; & 2) die huidige onderrigtema van die Sondagskoolsillabus – ons geloof in die drie sakramente – die instelling van die Paasfees/Pasga as grondslag vir die sakrament van die heilige Avondmaal: Les 24/36

    23) Huidige Lering: So het [EXO 6:2] by hulle tot vervulling gekom toe hulle God, die Almagtige ontdek het as die HERE; soos ons Hom ook vandag ken as God, die Vader, God die Seun en God die Heilige Gees. Hy sê vir Sy dissipels: “En gaan preek en sê: Die koninkryk van die hemele het naby gekom” [MAT 10:7] Daarna was Hy gekruisig, is begrawe en het deur die wonder van God uit die dood opgestaan as ‘n verheerlikte liggaam met baie lede, naamlik ons pragtige Kerk, met die ampte-struktuur om dit te bedien. [HEB 10:5; EFE 4: 10-14]

    23) Current teaching: Then [EXO 6:3] was fulfilled as they discovered the Almighty God as the Lord; as we know the Him now as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. He said to His disciples: “And as you go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.” [MAT 10:7] He was crucified, buried but by the wonder of God He was raised from the dead as a glorious Body with many members; namely our beautiful Church, with an Officer structure to serve them. [HEB 10:5; EPH 4:10-14]

    See how single verses are used out of context to refer to themselves.

    In EXO 6:3 God speaks to Moses saying “I am the LORD”. Please read that verse in context with the rest of the verses in your Bible (EXO 6:1-13).

    In MAT 10:7 Jesus was sending out His twelve apostles (MAT 10:1-4, REV 21:14) to the lost sheep of the house of Israel to freely heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers and cast out demons, bringing peace (MAT 10:5-15). This they could do because He gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of disease and all manner of sickness (MAT 10:1).

    Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus was raised from the dead as a beautiful Church, especially not as the OAC which was founded for the first time in South Africa after splitting away from the NAC.

    The only “Officer structure” the Bible ever mentions for the New Testament church are those of a bishop and a deacon (1 TIM 3:1-13). The Orthodox Church claims that their bishops were ordained by Jesus’ original apostles https://orthodoxwiki.org/Apostolic_succession.

    In HEB 10:5 the body refers to Christ’s sacrifice once for all with His own physical body (JOH 1:14, HEB 10:12-14), please read that verse in context with the rest of the verses in your Bible (HEB 10:1-18).

    In EPH 4:10-14 it refers to Jesus who descended from far above all heavens and gave some to be apostles, and some to be prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. Nowhere does the Bible command a hierarchy as intimated and implied by the OAC.

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    Replies
    1. Who did God appoint as the head {Husband} of his Church {wife}?

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    2. 1 Cir 1 v 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a [c]stumbling block and to the [d]Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called,
      both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

      How is the power and wisdom conveyed to the Body ( Church) ? Through the Head of the Body.

      1 Cor 12

      27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
      28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues

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    3. Christ is the head of His church, read Ephesians 5:23-32 and Colossians 1:18. Jesus is the Christ (John 20:31, 1 John 2:22, 1 John 5:1). Jesus is not a bunch of people or an “apostolate” (1 Timothy 2:5). 1 Corinthians 12:27-28 is referring to the spiritual bride that belongs to Christ, hence the term “body of Christ”. Nowhere do the quoted verses imply that those in the church are Christ or the head of the church.
      “God hath set some in the church” NOT “God hath set some as the head of the church”

      Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body (Eph 5:23)
      the church is subject unto Christ (Eph 5:24)
      Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it (Eph 5:25)
      …please go read that chapter in its proper context.

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  13. T.O.K Apostel Smit
    Maandag 25 Februarie
    BEHAAG NIE JOUSELF
    Daar moet geen voorsorg gemaak vir die vlees wees nie. In ons verantwoordelikheid moet ons onself nooit behaag nie. Ons moet altyd poog om net God te behaag. Ons moet altyd met Christus beklee wees- aangetrek met die Kerk

    Maar beklee julle met die Here Jesus Christus, en maak geen voorsorg vir die vlees om sy begeerlikhede te bevredig nie.
    ROMEINE 13:14 AFR53

    H.T.C Apostle Smit
    Monday 25 February
    DONT PLEASE YOURSELF
    There should be no provision made for the flesh. In our responsibility we should never please ourselves. We should always endeavour to please God only. We should be clothed with Christ, the Church

    But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
    ROMANS 13:14 KJV

    Ja ne, just goes to show how we are fed single verses so that we rather become obedient to the OAC instead of Jesus Christ. Clothed with the Church? In other words what the HTC is trying to say, be on your place in the OAC because if you don’t attend all the OAC activities then you are pleasing yourself and making provision for the flesh. No wonder the OAC is seen as a cult.

    If we read that verse with the other verses before it we get the real meaning of those verses.

    Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another:
    for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

    Rom 13:9 For this,
    Thou shalt not commit adultery,
    Thou shalt not kill,
    Thou shalt not steal,
    Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    Thou shalt not covet;
    and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely,
    Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour:
    therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep:
    for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

    Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand:
    let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

    Rom 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day;
    not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

    Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

    Who is your neighbor? Just the people you go to church with? No my friends, go read for yourself what Jesus said in Mat 5:43-48 & Luk 10:25-37.

    ReplyDelete
  14. OAC HTC/TOK for today:
    9) Paasfees: Elemente: “Deurposte en Bodrumpel” Bloed aan die “deurposte en bodrumpel” van die huis – getuienis/bewys van die huisgesin se deelname. Die deurposte simboliseer die ouers en die bodrumpel die kind(ers). [EXO 12:7]

    9) Passover: Elements: “Two Sides- and Upper Posts of the Door” The blood on the two side- and upper posts of the door– testimony / proof that the household participated in the Passover. The side posts symbolise the parents and the upper post, the children. [EXO 12:7]

    EXO 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

    …The side posts symbolize the parents and the upper post, the children…???

    AIKONA!!! You guys are missing the big picture and have completely lost the plot!!!

    That’s not what I read when I read Exo 12:1-28… The LORD passed to smite the Egyptians, and it was He that saw the blood on the lintel and on the two doorposts, and the LORD passed over the entrance and He didn’t permit the destroyer to enter those houses to smite them. The first Passover was the only time the Israelites applied blood on their doorposts; afterwards it became an annual convocation of the LORD from the evening of the fourteenth of the first month (Lev 23:4-8). Paul wasn’t married and neither did he have any natural children, but he kept the feast, the first Passover foreshadowed Jesus as the Paschal Lamb (Isa 53:7-10, Joh 1:29, Act 8:32-35, 1 Cor 7:6-8, 1 Pet 1:19-20)...

    Whose blood was on the lintel and two side posts? Your own blood cannot save you (Heb 9:11-28)! Jesus is the only door of the sheep (Joh 10:1-21).
    For a detailed and insightful explanation on the meaning of Passover, you can also check out https://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Spring_Holidays/Pesach/Pasach/pasach.html

    ReplyDelete
  15. OAC’s HTC/TOK
    11 March 2019) Relationship between the Passover and the Holy Communion: Sacrifice The sacrifices that are to be made for these institutions are:
    * Passover - year old ram (goat or sheep) without blemish and unleavened bread. [EXO 12:5-8]
    * Holy Communion - the Lamb of God, Christ the Church of which we are members. [I COR 5:7]

    11 Maart 2019) Verband tussen Paasfees en Heilige Avondmaal: Offerande Die offers wat vir die instellings gebring word:
    * Paasfees - jaaroue bok-/skaaprammetjie, sonder gebrek en ongesuurde brood [EXO 12:5-8]
    * Heilige Avondmaal - die Lam van God, Christus die Kerk waarvan ons elkeen 'n lid is [I KOR 5:7]

    Exo 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
    Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
    Exo 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
    Exo 12:8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

    1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

    … the Lamb of God, Christ the Church…??? Where did you guys read that!? Which verse!?

    ReplyDelete
  16. OAK TOK/OAC HTC
    16) Verband tussen Paasfees en Heilige Avondmaal: Ongesuurde Brood * Paasfees - die brood, met bitter kruie, wat saam met die vleis van die geslagte lammetjie geëet moes word [EXO 12:8] * Heilige Avondmaal - die (geestelike) liggaam van Christus, die Kerk - elke lid (ons) [MAT 26:26]

    16) Relationship between the Passover and the Holy Communion: Unleavened Bread: * Passover - the unleavened bread was to be eaten with bitter herbs and the meat of the sacrificial lamb. [EXO 12:8] * Holy Communion - the (spiritual) body of Christ, the Church - every member (us). [MAT 26:26]

    Exo 12:8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

    Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

    … Holy Communion - the (spiritual) body of Christ, the Church - every member (us)…??? JESUS took the bread and gave it to His disciples!!! The bread He gave them did not represent them and the “church” going forward!!! Do you commemorate yourself or Jesus??? How blind can the OAC be???

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  17. OAK TOK/OAC HTC
    17) [III] Verband tussen Paasfees en Heilige Avondmaal: Bloed * Paasfees - die bloed aan die deurposte en bodrumpel as teken en beskerming teen die tiende plaag [EXO 12:22-23] * Heilige Avondmaal - goeie werke / offers van die lede van die liggaam van Christus, die Kerk [MAT 26:28]

    17) (111) Relationship between the Passover and the Holy Communion: Blood: * Passover - the blood of the sacrificial lamb was struck on the side and upper doorposts as a token and protection from the tenth plague. [EXO 12:22,23] * Holy Communion - good deeds / offerings of the members of the body of Christ, the Church. [MAT 26:28]

    Exo 12:22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
    Exo 12:23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

    Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

    … Holy Communion - good deeds / offerings of the members of the body of Christ, the Church…???

    Does anybody in the OAC bother to read the whole Bible??? Are OAC officers illiterate??? Are OAC officers blind??? PLEASE read a little bit further…
    Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
    Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

    Did you read that??? It was JESUS that spoke to His disciples and said to them “this is MY blood”!!! Where did Jesus ever say “this is YOUR blood”??? Where did JESUS ever say that Holy Communion was a commemoration of His disciples’ good deeds or offerings??? Where did the apostles of JESUS CHRIST ever say that Holy Communion was a commemoration of church members’ good deeds / offerings??? The OAC is making itself guilty of denying the SON!!!

    JESUS said:
    Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
    Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

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  18. T.O.K Apostel Vermaak (KZN en Namibië)
    Donderdag 21 Maart
    21) God se doel om Sy Seun te stuur was om die belofte van die ewige lewe te vervul, en dat nie een van die wat aan Hom gegee is, verlore gaan nie. Ons is vandag die Seun (Kerk) en as ons Sy wil doen, openbaar ons Sy genade en krag aan ander sodat hulle ook gered kan word.
    1Joh 2v25, Joh 6v39-40.

    H.T.C Apostle Vermaak (KZN and Namibia)
    Thursday 21 March
    21)God’s purpose in sending His Son was to fulfil the promise of eternal life, and that none of those given to Him, should go lost. We are today the Son (Church) and by us revealing God’s grace and power by doing His will, others today are also saved.
    1Joh 2v25, Joh 6v39-40.

    1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

    Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    … We are today the Son (Church)…??? No wonder OAC members are so lost, they get fed this nonsense by their false apostles!!! At what stage in history did Jesus return as a crowd where every eye saw Him?

    Rev_1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

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    1. Apostel Vermaak jy lieg nou vir die mense deur te se niemand gaan verloore nie dit het in jou apostelskap gebeur en jy weet daarvan en het niks gedoen nie in die bluff gemeente

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    2. Daar is nie een apostel in die oak wat regtig weet wat in die gemeente's aangaan nie. Hulle maak staat op die 4 voud ampte om hulle op datum te hou. En die steek baie goed weg vir hulle apostels ( wat hulle god is) min weetende dat hulle niks vir die regte GOD kan wegsteek nie. As almal in die oak die regte GOD begin dien dan sal hulle dalk gesien word as n deel in die liggaam van JESUS.

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    3. ek sien jy praat van die viervout amte wie is hulle 4 want as hulle oudste kom kuier dan se hulle die oudste kom as hulle apostel kom is dit die verseeling diens of apostel diens en as die 4vout ampte kom is daar net 3 van hulle opsiener evangelis en profeet waar is die 4de een

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  19. OAK TOK/OAC HTC
    22) Huidige lering: Koester die lewe wat God ons in Sy Seun gee. Dit verwys na die Apostoliese leefwyse. Om in die Seun te wees is om verseëld te wees as lid in Sy Liggaam, die Kerk, wat bestaan uit Sy vlees (elke lid) en Sy bloed (die lewe/aktiwiteite in die Liggaam). [1 KOR 12:12-13]

    22) Current teaching: Cherish the life that God has given us in His Son: This refers to the apostolic way of living. Being in the Son is to be a sealed member in the Body of Christ, the Church and it consists of His flesh (every member) and His blood (the life/activities within the Body). [1 COR 12:12-13]

    1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
    1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    … Being in the Son…??? Where in the quoted verses did you guys read that??? Where in the Bible is there any mention of apostolic??? Where in the Bible does it ever mention that His blood is actually activities in the church??? The body of Christ isn’t Christ Himself but the church that belongs to Christ!!! Christ is the head of the church, the church that accepts Him alone as their head. This is the church that belongs to Him!!! The church that belongs to Jesus is not a hermaphroditic body that denies Jesus and married to itself…

    Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
    Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
    Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
    Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
    Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

    Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

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  20. 23) Huidige lering: Ons sal Doelwit b) volbring wanneer ons die waarde om ‘n Apostolie te wees kan bepaal. Glo ek in die aktiwiteite van die Kerk en besef ek die waarde daarvan? Is ek bereid om deel te neem aan die evangelie-opbouing om so my geloof in die Kerk te versterk? [ROM 10:13-17]

    23) Current teaching: To comply with Objective (b) one must determine the value of being an apostolic: Do I have faith in the activities within the Church and do I know the value of it? Do I believe in it? Am I willing to partake in the EDP (evangelistic training program) to improve my faith? [ROM 10:13-17]

    Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
    Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
    Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
    Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    … Do I have faith in the activities within the Church…??? Absolutely NOT!!! The quoted verses don’t mention anything about church activities, we should have faith in God !!!

    Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
    Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
    Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
    Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
    Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

    The OAC is the last church to have faith in because they don’t believe in Jesus’ resurrection!!!

    1Co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
    1Co 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
    1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
    1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
    1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
    1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
    1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
    1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
    1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
    1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
    1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
    1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

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  21. Good day Beloved i am a underdeacon in the OAC and i believe that Jesus was never a human being like us let's read Exsodus 4 vers 22 Jesus is the city Israel the first born Hosea 11 vers 1 we will read that God loved his son israel since he was a child I believe that there no human being the can go through that pain

    We do believe in Jesus Christ the church yes because it is the only son of God and we are part of this body of Christ (if Jesus Christ was a human being like us don't u think they would find his body remains everything in the Bible is written natural but it has a spiritual meaning

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/1371685619638246/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D

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    1. Good day Mr underdeacon in the OAC,

      If you don’t believe that Jesus ever became a human being like us then you don’t believe He was ever crucified. And if you don’t believe He was ever crucified then you don’t believe He was ever resurrected. If you don’t believe He was ever resurrected then:
      Your preaching is vain
      Your faith is also in vain
      You are a false witness of God
      You are still in your sins
      You are of all men most miserable
      (1 Corinthians 15:12-34)

      Quoting single verses out of context does not prove your argument; they just prove your ignorance. Let’s read those verses in context.

      Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

      Israel is called God’s firstborn son because symbolically Israel is God’s firstborn. You need to understand the Jewish concept of being the firstborn son. The firstborn son received a double portion of the inheritance and was considered the favored one of God. Israel was adopted as God’s special son, just like God chose Jacob as the firstborn over Esau even though he was not naturally the firstborn. Israel was favored by God and chosen to be his special people. By Jewish definition, Israel was God’s chosen and firstborn son. God chose Abraham and his descendents out of all the nations to receive the promises and the covenant. God promised that all the nations would be blessed through Abraham and his seed (Genesis 12:3, Genesis 22:18). God chose the nation of Israel to be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation (Exodus 19:6). Israel was therefore the firstborn because they were the first out of all the nations to receive the adoption of sons. Jesus however is "the only begotten Son" (John 3:16) and through Christ we "become the sons of God" (John 1:12). Christ is the only begotten Son that was with the Father before all creation.

      Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

      The context of this verse speaks of the relationship the Lord had with the nation of Israel. The Lord loved Israel (Exodus 4:22-23) and rescued the people from slavery under Pharaoh, bringing them into the Promised Land. The analogy is that of God as the father and Israel as the child. God’s supernatural power served as the basis of the nation’s freedom from Egypt and escape to a new land. Matthew provides further insight by showing that the coming of the Messiah is an extension of the Lord’s love to His people (Matthew 2:13-15). The experience of Jesus matched what was written about Israel. Jesus is God’s Son and He made a trip from Egypt to the land of Israel. Jesus completed what began with the exodus, the promise of Abraham and the leadership of Moses. The “calling” of God’s “son” (Israel) began in ages past and found its completion in the coming of Christ to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. There are many similarities between the nation of Israel and the Messiah, the only One to fulfill the Prophets (Matthew 5:17).

      Nowhere does the Bible say that a church is the only begotten Son of God, please read this post again.

      You may also be interested in my post ‘Doctrine - Spiritual vs Natural’:
      http://oldapostolicchurchrevealed.blogspot.co.za/2016/08/doctrine-spiritual-vs-natural.html

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    2. I fully agree with Raynaldo
      Unfortunately you need a Spiritual insight to understand him

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    3. I guess that all depends on your definition of “Spiritual insight”. What exactly is your definition of “Spiritual insight”?

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    4. I fully disagree with Raynaldo
      Unfortunately you are Spiritually blind to agree with him

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  22. Ons kry vandag ‘n boodskap van ons Evangelis, sover dit die kruisdood betref,,, verander bietjie die “woord Jesus” na jou eie naam … iets om aan te dink … my eie kruis wat vir myself én ander vandag tot voordeel kan wees, tot verlossing, tot oorwinning en tot behoud van eie saligheid

    Vanderbijlpark velde

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    1. Translation:
      Today we got a message from our Evangelist, as far as the crucifixion is concerned, change the "word Jesus" to your own name ... something to think about ... my own cross that can benefit myself and others today, to salvation, to victory and to salvation

      Your “Evangelist” is lost and he’s misleading you! Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ didn’t say to a certain lame man that he must get up and walk in the name of Peter (Acts 3:1-10). Only by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth are we made whole, there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved (Acts 4:8-12). There is only one Messiah who died for our sins, nothing you can ever do can save you or anybody else. Our blood is tainted by sin and cannot save us, our righteousnesses are as filthy rags (Exodus 12:5-7, Isaiah 64:6-8, 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Galatians 2:15-21, 1 Peter 1:13-25, 1 John 1:5-10).

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    2. how can one person put so much time,effort and hate into people who he doesnt even know, Ex OAC critic i hope that you find peace in your heart cos it seems to me that you cant even sleep at night since youre busy keeping tabs on OAC members.....YOU REALLY ARE A LOST SOUL EN EK BID DIE HERE TREE NIE IN DIE GEREG MET JOU NIE,VAN DAAI DAG SAL JY EERS RERUG SIEN

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    3. If the false teeth fit, wear them. I do have peace in my heart because this is all a work of love. I just so happen to care and I want all my former brethren to know Jesus. Please read your Bible and get to know the REAL Jesus.

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    4. Ja hitman jones, talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Does your nose think you hate it when you’re squeezing those nasty little blistering barnacles that clog the pores on your nose and you end up looking like Rudolf the red nose reindeer?

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  23. 21) [III] Paassondag: Opstanding. Ons herdenk vandag die dag waarop Jesus in ‘n verheerlikte liggaam opgestaan het. [ROM 6:3-11]. Kinders wat hulle loopbaan in die Sondagskool suksesvol voltooi het word as volwasse lede in die Kerk bevestig. [2 TIM 3:14-17]

    21) (III) Teaching: Easter Sunday: Resurrection: We celebrate the day on which Jesus was raised from the dead in a glorified body. [ROM 6:3-11] The children who completed their Sunday school career successfully are confirmed as adult members of the Church. [2 TIM 3:14-17]

    Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
    Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
    Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
    Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
    Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
    Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
    Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
    2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
    2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    … We celebrate the day on which Jesus was raised from the dead in a glorified body…??? How does Jesus’ death and resurrection have anything to do with confirmation of the OAC’s sixteen year old children???

    13 Nov ‘18 TOK) Heilige Doop
    Op sestienjarige ouderdom word kinders as volwasse lede van die Kerk bevestig. Hierdie aksie vind op die Paassondag plaas en dan neem hulle die verantwoordelikheid van hulle ouers se doopbelofte op hulself. [II TIM 3:14-15]

    13 Nov ‘18 HTC) Holy Baptism
    Children are confirmed on Easter Sunday as adult members of the Church at the age of sixteen years when they assume responsibility for the Baptismal promise which their parents bore untill now. [II TIM 3:14-17]

    … they assume responsibility for the Baptismal promise which their parents bore…??? Thus NO BAPTISM!!! Easter Sunday is for confirmation of 16 year olds and the tradition in South Africa requires the sisters to wear white as dictated by the Overseer. Confirmation confirms that a child has grown up in “the order”. Parents are responsible for their child's soul salvation until after confirmation when the child is given full responsibility.

    OAC teaching: Easter or Passover is to fully grasp the meaning of the crucifixion, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for us today: What is expected of us who believe this? Are we willing to follow Him? [LUK 9:23]. This new life implies that we accept joint responsibility with Christ for the redemption and salvation of souls [EPH 2:4-6; ROM 6:3-11]. Today our children, who successfully completed their Sunday school career, will be confirmed as members. [PRO 3:5-7]

    … crucifixion, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for us today… Thus Jesus is crucified, buried and resurrected AGAIN TODAY??? Don’t you guys ever read the Bible??? [Heb 8:11-28; Heb 10:10-14]

    Unlike the OAC’s founding father Klibbe, the OAC today does not believe that Jesus was physically resurrected from the dead!!!

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  24. T.O.K Apostel Smit
    Vrydag 26 April
    DIE EERSTE LIEFDE
    Die konsep van eenheid word herhaaldelik onderstreep en een van die redes daarvoor is; omdat ons wegbeweeg het van ons eerste liefde. In my eerste liefde was my siening vir die Kerk heilig en absolute Saligheid. Die woord van my owergestelde was alles in my lewe. Die oproep tot elke geliefde is om terug te keer na die eerste liefde

    Maar Ek het teen jou dat jy jou eerste liefde verlaat het. Onthou dan waarvandaan jy uitgeval het, en bekeer jou en doen die eerste werke. Anders kom Ek gou na jou toe en sal jou kandelaar van sy plek verwyder as jy jou nie bekeer nie.
    OPENBARING 2:4-5 AFR53

    H.T.C Apostle Smit
    Friday 26 April
    THE FIRST LOVE
    The concept of unity is repeatedly emphasized and one of the reasons for this; because we have moved away from our first love. In my first love, my view of the Church was sacred and absolute Salvation. The word of my overplaced was everything in my life. The call to every beloved is to return to the first love

    Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
    REVELATION 2:4-5 KJV

    … my view of the Church was sacred and absolute Salvation. The word of my overplaced was everything in my life…???
    No my friends, Christ is the head of the church [1CO 11:3; EPH 5:22-32; COL 1:18]!!! The view of Jesus Christ of Nazareth is sacred and our salvation is through Him alone [JOH 14:5-7; ACT 4:10-12; 1TI 2:5-6; HEB 3:1-3]!!!
    The word of any so-called overplaced is spoken by a human tongue and cannot be everything in my life [JAM 3:1-12]!!!
    God is way more than some word spoken by a mere mortal [PRO 30:4-6; JOH 1:1-3; JOH 1:14-18; HEB 4:12-13; REV 19:11-13; REV 22:18-21]!!!

    Please my friends, read your Bible!!! Context is important!!! Read what the Spirit says to the church of Ephesus [REV 2:1-7]… thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars…repent…repent…that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans… To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God… There’s nothing written there about making the OAC and a overplaced person everything in your life!!! Repentance means to stop sinning willfully!!!

    https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/nicolaitans/

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  25. 30) Huidige Lering: Deur die wonder van God het Jesus uit die dood opgestaan; nou as ‘n liggaam met vele lede, naamlik die Kerk [JOH 12:23-24; HEB 10:5]. Hy stel die amptestruktuur daar soos God aan Noag belowe het: Dit is die teken van die verbond wat Ek sluit tussen My en julle en al die lewende wesens wat by julle is, vir ewige geslagte: My boog gee Ek in die wolke; dit sal ‘n teken wees van die verbond tussen My en die aarde. [GEN 9:12-13; EFE 4:7-11]

    30) Current Teaching: Another wonder happened: He rose from the grave as a body with many members, our beautiful Church. [JOH 12:23-24; HEB 10:5] He established the Officers’ structure as God promised in the days of Noah: This is the sign of the covenant which I make between Me and you, and every living creature that is with you, for all generations: I set My rainbow in the cloud, and it shall be for the sign of the covenant between Me and the earth. [GEN 9:12-13; EPH 4:7-11].

    … He rose from the grave as a body with many members, our beautiful Church…???
    Really???
    He rose from the grave in South Africa in 1927 and became a bunch of people with a god-complex???
    Does anybody in the OAC read the Bible and believe what’s written in the Bible??? Has anybody in the OAC actually read MAT 28:1-18, MAR 16:1-14, LUK 24:1-49, JOH 20:1-31, JOH 21:1-25, ACT 1:1-11 etc etc???

    Since when is a rainbow in the cloud the Officers’ structure???
    A rainbow has seven colors; Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo and Violet.
    The natural is the forerunner of the spiritual, thus the OAC’s imaginary rainbow looks like this:
    Red = Elder
    Orange = Fourfold Office (Evangelist, Prophet, Overseer)
    Yellow = Underdeacon
    Green = Priest
    Blue = Sister
    Indigo = ???
    Violet = ???
    What about the rest of the Officers??? Where does the brother (Brown) and the apostle (White/Silver) fit into this imaginary rainbow Officer structure??? Where does the Bible say that the rainbow is an Officers’ structure??? Where does the Bible speak of an Officer’s structure like that of the OAC???
    The bow is a token of the covenant that the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh [GEN 9:11-15]!!! No mention of Officers!!! The OAC is still stuck in the pre-flood as they still harp on Genesis 1 out of context as every new convert’s beginning in the OAC…

    In the meantime our Lord and Savior Jesus became the mediator of a new and better covenant [JER 31:31-40; HEB 8:1-13; HEB 12:24].

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  26. T.O.K Apostel Vermaak (KZN en Namibië)
    Dinsdag 7 Mei
    7) God het Sy Seun tot ons gestuur om die belofte van die ewige lewe te vervul. Sy opdrag is dat nie een wat aan Hom gegee is, verlore moet gaan nie. Ons is vandag die Seun (Kerk) en deur ons Sy wilt e doen, openbaar ons Sy genade en krag sodat ander ook gered te kan word.
    Joh 3v16, 1Joh 2v25, Joh 6v39-40.

    H.T.C Apostle Vermaak (KZN and Namibia)
    Tuesday 7 May
    7)God’s purpose in sending His Son was to fulfil the promise of eternal life, and that none of those given to Him, should go lost. We are today the Son (Church) and by us revealing God’s grace and power by doing His will, others today are also saved.
    Joh 3v16, 1Joh 2v25 and Joh 6v39-40.

    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

    Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    … We are today the Son (Church)…??? No wonder OAC members are so lost, they get fed this nonsense by their false apostles!!! Where in the Bible does it say that the church is the only begotten Son of God???

    Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
    Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

    The OAC isn’t subject to Christ, they’re subject to themselves and deny Christ in the process by calling themselves Christ!!!

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  27. 17) Die Heilige Gees: Vervulling van die beloftes. Sonder die Heilige Gees is die siele verlore en sonder hoop, en sonder God; soos vreemdelinge ten aansien van God se beloftes. Deur ons Kerk, het ons toegang, deur een Gees, tot die Vader en word ons huisgenote van God. [EFE 2:11-22]

    17) Holy Ghost: Fulfilment of the Promises: Without the Holy Ghost, the souls are lost and hopeless, without expectation and without God; like strangers to God’s covenant. Through Jesus Christ (the Church) we have access, through one Spirit, to the Father and are fellow citizens of the household of God. [EPH 2:11-22]

    And so the lies continue every month within the OAC, no glory to God, no glory to Jesus Christ, they continue glorifying a man made organization and their own name!!! Wake up OAC, please!!! EPH 2:11-22 does NOT say the church or its officers save you!!!

    Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
    Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
    Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

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  28. T.O.K Apostel Vermaak (KZN en Namibië)
    Woensdag 22 Mei
    22) Om die lewe in Christus te leef, vereis dit ‘n eensgesinde toewyding tot ‘n lewe in Jesus Christus, ons pragtige Kerk, geïnspireer deur die onbeskryflike voorreg om medewerkers van God, asook dissipels en ambassadeurs van Jesus Christus, te wees.
    Rom 15v1.

    H.T.C Apostle Vermaak (KZN and Namibia)
    Wednesday 22 May
    22) To live this life in Christ, calls for a collective commitment to a life in Jesus Christ, our beautiful Church, inspired by the indescribable privilege to be co-workers of God, as well as disciples and ambassadors of Jesus Christ. We as the strong must care for the weak who do not have the same insight, ability or freedom as us.
    Rom 15v1.

    Rom 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

    … a life in Jesus Christ, our beautiful Church …??? Seriously, you read that in the verse above or do you just make these things up as you go along??? And you call yourself an “Apostle”??? The OAC pride themselves on “spiritual” interpretation, albeit wrong, and now they’re trying to say that being in Christ literally means being a physical member of the OAC!???

    When you’re in love, you’re not in an organization called love or belonging to a group of people calling themselves love!??? Likewise, being in Christ doesn’t mean you’re in an organization calling itself Christ!!! Being in Christ means to be united to Christ, bound to Christ (Rom 8:1, Rom 8:38-39, 2Co 5:11-21, Eph 1:3-14, Php 1:1-2, 2Ti 1:9)!!!

    Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    You receive a new identity when you place your faith in Christ Jesus and no, it’s not being called brother or sister in the OAC!!!
    When you’ve been baptized into Christ, it’s not a rite of passage into the OAC where you get confirmed by believing allegories or a wet finger on your forehead!!! It’s when you identify with Christ by leaving your old sinful life behind and embrace a new life in Christ (Mar 8:34-38, Luk 9:23-26, Col 3:1-3)!!! By one Spirit are we all baptized into one body and drink into one Spirit and the body is not one member, but many (1Co 12:12-14)!!!

    To be in Christ means to accept His sacrifice as payment for our own sins, it doesn’t mean accepting someone else from the OAC who interprets their visit to you or going to church as bloodshed (Rom 3:9-31, Heb 10:10-18)!!!

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  29. OAK TOK/OAC HTC
    25) Huidige Lering: ‘n Huispriesterskap, gebou en deur die genade van God onderhou, is soos ‘n groot wolk van getuies wat God se betrokkenheid in hulle lewe bewys. Ons is bevoorreg om baie sulke gesinne in die Kerk te hê wat van God se betrokkenheid getuig. [HEB 12:1-2] “Kyk, seuns is ‘n erfdeel van die HERE; die vrug van die moederskoot is ‘n beloning. Soos pyle in die hand van ‘n held, so is die seuns van die jeug. Gelukkig is die man wat sy pylkoker daarmee gevul het! Hulle sal nie beskaamd staan as hulle met die vyande in die poort spreek nie”. [PSA 127: 3-5]

    25) Current Teaching: A Housepriestship being built and maintained by the grace of God is like a great cloud of witnesses revealing the involvement of God. We are fortunate to have in our Church many households whose lives continuously testify of God’s involvement. [HEB 12:1-2] “Behold, children are a heritage from the LORD, The fruit of the womb is a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, So are the children of one's youth. Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them; They shall not be ashamed, But shall speak with their enemies in the gate.” [PSA 127:3-5]

    Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
    Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    Psa 127:3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
    Psa 127:4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
    Psa 127:5 Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

    ... A Housepriestship being built and maintained by the grace of God is like a great cloud of witnesses …??? And you got that from verses about Jesus, Founder and Perfecter of Our Faith???

    The cloud of witnesses in Heb 12:1 refers to those that had faith from Abel to the harlot Rahab and their hardships (Heb 11:1-38)!!!
    And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, RECEIVED NOT THE PROMISE (Heb 11:39)!!! You guys need to read those verses again and look unto Jesus because your labour is in vain without Him!!!

    Psa 127:1 A Song of degrees for Solomon. Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.
    Psa 127:2 It is vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows: for so he giveth his beloved sleep.

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  30. OAK TOK/OAC HTC
    2) [I] Huidige Lering: Die evangelie van die Koninkryk van God is ‘n ware en betroubare openbaring van God se skepping, en daarom ‘n blye boodskap vir alle mense. Dit verskyn aan die mens deur die koms van die Messias: Vandag verskyn Hy in heerlikheid aan die mens, deur die evangelie, as die liggaam wat God Hom gegee het [HEB 10:5]. Dit is Sy Kerk soos Apostel Paulus in die Skrifte daarvan skryf. [EFE 4:1-16; ROM 12:4-8; 1 KOR 12:27-28]

    2) (I) Current teaching: The gospel of the Kingdom of God is a true and reliable revelation of the creation of God and therefore good news to man. His Kingdom appears to man by the coming of the Messiah: Today He appears in glory to man through the gospel as a body that God has given Him. [HEB10:5] This body is His Church as described by Apostle Paul in the Scriptures: [EPH 4:1-16; ROM 12:4-8; 1 COR 12: 27-28]

    Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

    … Today He appears in glory to man through the gospel as a body that God has given Him. [HEB10:5] This body is His Church…??? NO!!!! Why don’t you read the Bible in context??? Go and read those verses in their proper context by reading the rest of the verses!!! The church is NOT the MESSIAH!!! ONLY JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH IS THE MESSIAH!!! Jesus is the HEAD of the church!!! For how long is the OAC going to continue denying Jesus Christ of Nazareth as the head of the church???

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  31. Kom ons almal wat in die kerk van die HERE is, bid vir die OAK lede en ampte, want hulle is almal met blidheid geslaan. Van hulle apostel tot by die kinders wat voor gelieg word. Ek hoop die hele oak sien die lig voor dit te laat is. Hemel en Hel bestaan. Dit is regte plekke. As julle die Bybel begin lees sal julle dit sien. Julle moet eers kan sien voordat julle die Bybel lees. Wat moet julle eers sien? Dat julle verlei word.
    In die land van die blindes is die een oog koning. Ek hoop julle verstaan.

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  32. OAK TOK/OAC HTC
    8) Heilige Gees: Toegang tot die Koninkryk Die besit van die Heilige Gees is noodsaaklik vir toegang tot en voortgesette inwoning van die koninkryk van God (die Kerk) en om as die eiendom van Christus (die Kerk) gereken te word. [JOH 3:5 ; ROM 8:9]

    8) Holy Spirit: Essential for Admission to the Kingdom. The possession of the Holy Spirit is essential for admission to and continued residence in the kingdom of God (the Church) and to be counted as belonging to Christ (the Church). [JOH 3:5 ; ROM 8:9]

    Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    … residence in the kingdom of God (the Church)…??? Which Bible are you reading from??? Or did you just make it up without reading the Bible??? Have you never read Rom 14:17??? For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. When Christ shall reign for ever and ever, the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our Lord (Rev 11:15).

    … counted as belonging to Christ (the Church)…??? Seriously, which Bible are you reading from??? Have you never read Eph 5:23??? Christ is the head of the church. And he is the head of the body, the church (Col 1:18).

    Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

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  33. Die oak bestaan van 1926 af. As julle nou die "kerk" is, waar of wie was die kerk voor die oak bestaan het. Hoekom kan julle apostels nie doen wat Jesus se Apostels gedoen het nie? En hoekom het Jesus se Apostels NOOIT na hulle self verwys en gese hulle is Christus nie. Ek hoop jy sien julle is verlei.

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  34. OAK TOK/OAC HTC
    2) Huidige Lering: As Jesus dus in die vlees uit die graf opgestaan het, is dit nie vir ons van belang nie, want die Skrifte beklemtoon Sy geestelike opstanding in ‘n verheerlikte liggaam met vele lede, naamlik die Kerk. Ons verkies om, soos die Skrifte, op die geestelike opstanding te konsentreer. [1 PET 3:18; JOH 12:23-24]

    2) Current Teaching: If Jesus rose from the grave in the flesh, then it is less important because Scripture emphasizes His spiritual resurrection, in a glorified body with many members, which is the Church. We prefer to concentrate on the spiritual resurrection which is emphasized in Scripture. [1 PET 3:18; JOH 12:23-24]

    1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    Joh 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
    Joh 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

    …If Jesus rose from the grave in the flesh, then it is less important…??? IF??? LESS IMPORTANT???
    …His spiritual resurrection, in a glorified body with many members, which is the Church…??? You guys are unbelievable in your constant attempts to twist Scripture to glorify the OAC instead of Jesus!!!

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    Replies
    1. The resurrection of Jesus is VERY IMPORTANT!!!
      Only God who created life can resurrect it after death, only God can remove the sting of death and gain victory over the grave (1Co 15:54-55). In resurrecting Jesus from the grave, God reminds us of His absolute sovereignty over life and death. It shows that God has the power to raise us from the dead. It guarantees that the bodies of those who believe in Christ will not remain dead but will be resurrected unto eternal life. It demonstrates that God accepted Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf.
      Jesus’ triumphant and glorious victory over death validates who He claimed to be, the sign of the prophet Jonas validated His ministry (Mat 16:1-4). His resurrection also authenticated His own claims that He would be raised on the third day (Mar 8:31, Mar 9:31 Mar 10:34). The Bible is clear that Jesus’ body was resurrected. The tomb was empty. He was recognizable to those who knew Him. Jesus showed Himself to all His disciples after His resurrection, and more than five hundred people were eyewitnesses to His earthly, post-resurrection presence and provided irrefutable proof that He is the Savior of the world (1Co 15:3-8).
      Jesus’ resurrection proves His sinless character and divine nature. God’s Holy One would never see corruption (Psa 16:10) and Jesus never saw corruption, even after He died (Act 13:32-37). That is why Paul preached “that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things” (Act 13:38-39).
      Jesus’ resurrection validates the Old Testament prophecies that foretold of Jesus’ suffering and resurrection (Act 17:2-3).
      If Jesus Christ is not resurrected, then we have no hope that we will be, either. Apart from Christ’s resurrection, we have no Savior, no salvation, and no hope of eternal life. As Paul said, our faith would be vain and we are still in our sins (1Co 15:14-19). Jesus is the resurrection and the life (Joh 11:25), He is the source of both. There is no resurrection apart from Jesus, no eternal life. Jesus does more than give life; He is life, and that’s why death has no power over Him. Jesus confers His life on those who trust in Him, so that we can share His triumph over death (1Jn 5:11-12). We who believe in Jesus Christ will personally experience resurrection because, having the life Jesus gives, we have overcome death. It is impossible for death to win (1Co 15:53-57). Jesus is the firstfruits of them that slept (1Co 15:20). In other words, Jesus led the way in life after death. The resurrection of Jesus Christ is important as a testimony to the resurrection of human beings, which is a basic tenet of the Christian faith. Unlike other religions, Christianity possesses a Founder who transcends death and promises that His followers will do the same. Every other religion was founded by men or prophets whose end was the grave. As Christians, we know that God became man, died for our sins, and was resurrected the third day. The grave could not hold Him. He lives, and He sits today at the right hand of the Father in heaven (Heb 10:12). The Word of God guarantees the believer’s resurrection at the coming of Jesus Christ for His church (1Th 4:13-18, 1Co 15:50-58). The importance of the resurrection of Christ has an impact on our service to the Lord now. Because we know we will be resurrected to new life, we can endure persecution and danger for Christ’s sake (1Co 15:30-32), just as our Lord did. Because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, thousands of Christian martyrs through history have willingly traded their earthly lives for everlasting life and the promise of resurrection. Because Jesus rose from the dead with a physical body, every Christian has the guarantee of his own bodily resurrection (Joh 5:21-29; Rom 8:23).

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    2. Christ makes it plain to His disciples that He does have a physical body; He is not a disembodied spirit: “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have” (Luk 24:39). After spending forty days with His disciples, Jesus ascended bodily into heaven (Act 1:9). Jesus is still human, and He has a human body in heaven right now. His body is different, however; earthly human flesh is perishable, but heavenly bodies are imperishable (1Co 15:50). Jesus has a physical body, with a difference. His resurrected body is designed with eternity in view. Our heavenly bodies will differ from our earthly ones in type of flesh, in splendor, in power, and in longevity. Paul states that the believer’s body will be an image of Christ’s body (1Co 15:35-49). Paul compares earthly bodies to tents and heavenly bodies to heavenly dwellings (2Co 5:1-2). Once the earthly tents come off, Christians will not be left “naked”—that is, without a body to live in (2Co 5:3). When the new body is “put on,” we will go from mortality to immortality (2Co 5:4).

      So, we know that the Christian will have a heavenly body like Jesus’ “glorious body” (Php 3:21). At His incarnation Jesus took on human flesh, and at His resurrection His body was glorified—although He retained the scars (Joh 20:27). He will forever be the God-Man, sacrificed for us. Christ, the Creator of the universe, will forever stoop to our level, and He will be known to us in heaven in a tangible form that we can see, hear, and touch (Rev 21:3-4, Rev 22:4).

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  35. The only reason why the oac don't want to except that JESUS rose from the grave, (although the grave was empty) is the fact that their doctrine will blow up in their face ,because how can someone with a natural body ascend into the apostles head? They are so lost.

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  36. Die enigste rede hoekom die oac nie wil aanvaar dat JESUS uit die graf opgestaan het nie,( alhoewel die graf leeg was) is dan is hulle geloof waansinnig.(wat wel is ) Want hoe kan n liggaam in hulle apostels se koppe in opvaar. Toe JESUS opgevaar het Hemel toe sien hulle mos in die apostels se koppe in!!!!!

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  37. dis baie snaaka dat een groep oak lede glo dat Jesus wel n mens was maar n ander groep glo dit niehulle se Hy was Gees maar hulle almal glo nie dat Jesus weer gaan kom nie alowel hulle so se verwys hulle na die werld sodra hulle in getuienis met hulle is dan het Jesus gekom maar ek lees in die bybel dat self Sy Apostel van daar die tyd uitsien na Sy koms en die oak apostels hulle het Hom

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  38. Dennis. Die Viervoudige Bediening of Viervoudelike Amp verwys na die Apostel, Profeet, Evangelis en Opsiener testame. Dit is afkomstig uit Efe 4: 11 waar dit bespreek word as belangrike instrumente in die kerk waardeur die Heilige Gees werk. Dit is nie net verwysend na 'n spesifieke persoon wat die besonderse amp dra nie, maar ook verwysend na die gawe wat deur elkeen werk. Die beskrywing van Herder en Leeraar is verwysend na een bediening.
    Hierdie beskrywing kom regdeur die Bybel voor, soos die vier riviere in die Paradys. Daniel en sy drie vriende, Esegiel se visioen van die kreatuur met vier gesigte, en ook in Openbaring as die vier Aardsengele om die troon van God. Alhoewel die Apostel gestel is bokant die ander, is al vier bedieninge onderhewig aan die gesag van Jesus Christus, die Hoof van die Kerk. Die Heilige Gees werk in hulle, Christus werk deur hulle, en die Vader oor hulle.

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    Replies
    1. Die "viervoud amp" in apostolie taal verwys na die profeet/evangelis/herder/leraar. Die opsiener is veronderstel om die herder en leraar te wees. Die amp struktuur van die oak is soos volg:
      apostel
      vvo (viervoud amp)
      oudster
      priester
      onderdiaken
      Melt, ek lees egter nêrens in die Bybel dat hierdie belangrike instrumente in die kerk is waardeur die Heilige Gees werk nie? Waar pas die priester en onderdiaken dan in hierdie prentjie?

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    2. Translation:
      “Dennis. The Fourfold Ministry or Fourfold Office refers to the apostle, prophet, evangelist, and overseer together. It comes from Eph 4:11 where it is discussed as important instruments in the church through which the Holy Spirit works. It is not only referring to a specific person who holds this special office, but also referring to the gift that works through each. The description of Pastor and Teacher is referring to one ministry.
      This description is found throughout the Bible, like the four rivers in Paradise. Daniel and his three friends, Ezekiel's vision of the four-faced creature, and also in Revelation as the four Archangels around the throne of God. Although the Apostle is set above the others, all four ministries are subject to the authority of Jesus Christ, the Head of the Church. The Holy Spirit works in them, Christ works through them, and the Father over them.”

      English:
      Dear Melt, you’re confusing the OAC’s fivefold ministry with their four fold officers. The OAC “apostle” plus their fourfold officers are supposedly the fivefold ministry as derived from the OAC’s literal interpretation of Ephesians 4:11’s “some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers” whereas their four fold officers are supposedly the “prophet”, “evangelist” and “overseer”, the “overseer” supposedly being as you said “…Pastor and Teacher is referring to one ministry…”. As for the rest of your statements, they are very imaginative and it would help if you actually read the Bible before making such statements.
      The four rivers are not in Paradise, but there was a river that went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads. Pison, Gihon, Hiddekel and Euphrates (Genesis 2:10-14). These rivers are not referring to apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers.
      Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah were children of Judah and were never referred to as apostles, prophets, pastors and teachers (Daniel 1:6-7). Daniel however was known as a prophet (Matthew 24:15, Mark 13:14).
      The living creature with four faces that Ezekiel saw were not apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers (Ezekiel 10:14).
      The four beasts round about the throne are not archangels; neither are they apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers (Revelation 4:6-9). We do read about those who call themselves apostles and are not, they are liars (Revelation 2:2).
      There is only one Apostle and High Priest, the man Christ Jesus (Hebrews 3:1-3).

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    3. Afrikaans:
      Beste Melt, u verwar die vyfvoudige bediening van die OAK met hul viervoudige amptes. Die OAK “apostel” plus sy viervoudige ampte is kamtig die vyfvoudige bediening, afgelei van die OAK se letterlike interpretasie van Efesiërs 4: 11 se “sommige as apostels, ander as profete, ander as evangeliste, ander as herders en leraars”, terwyl hul viervoudige ampte kamtig die “profeet”, “evangelis” en “opsiener” heet, en die “opsiener” is soos u gesê het “...Herder en Leeraar is verwysend na een bediening...”. Die res van u stellings is baie verbeeldingryk en dit sal help as u eintlik die Bybel lees voordat u sulke stellings maak.
      Die vier riviere is nie in die Paradys nie, maar daar het ‘n rivier uit Eden uitgegaan om die tuin nat te maak; en daarvandaan is dit verdeel en het vier lope geword. Pison, Gihon, Hiddékel en Frat (Genesis 2:10-14). Hierdie riviere verwys nie na apostels, profete, evangeliste, herders en leraars nie.
      Daniël, Hanánja, Mísael en Asárja was kinders van Juda en daar word nooit na hulle verwys as apostels, profete, herders en leraars nie (Daniël 1:6-7). Daniël was egter bekend as 'n profeet (Matteus 24:15, Markus 13:14).
      Die wese met vier aangesigte wat Esegiël gesien het, was nie apostels, profete, evangeliste, herders en leraars nie (Esegiël 10:14).
      Die vier lewende wese rondom die troon is nie aartsengele nie; hulle is ook nie apostels, profete, evangeliste, herders en leraars nie (Openbaring 4:6-9). Ons lees wel van dié wat sê dat hulle apostels is en dit nie is nie, en as leuenaars bevind is (Openbaring 2:2).
      Daar is slegs een Apostel en Hoëpriester, Christus Jesus (Hebreërs 3:1-3).

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  39. Die feit dat daar 'n debat is binne in die OAK ten opsigte van die historiese Jesus wys dat daar plek is vir gesonde oop gesprek, wat andersins lei tot allerhande beskuldigings in die NG Kerk wanneer dieselfde debat daar plaasvind.
    'n Onderskeid moet gemaak word tussen Jesus, wat wel 'n historiese persoon was, wat geleef en gesterf het in Judea in die eerste eeu (vermoedelik). Omdat daar baie teenstrydighede is in die Evangelies oor die tyd waarin Jesus geleef het kan daar met glad nie vasgestel word presies wanneer hy geleef het nie. Christus aan die ander kant weer is die amp waarin Jesus gestaan het. Jesus het vir 'n beperkte tyd geleef terwyl Christus, die Seun van God reeds van die begin daar was (verw Gen 1, en Joh 1:1). Christus is ten alle tye dieselfde en onveranderlik, daarom kan hy nie weggeneem word van die mens af nie.

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    Replies
    1. Die feit dat daar 'n debat is binne in die OAK ten opsigte van die historiese Jesus wys dat die OAK nie glo in die opstanding of die wederkoms nie. Geen kerk wat Jesus as Hoof het sal so debat voer nie. Punt. Melt, help asseblief, waar sê die Bybel dat Jesus nie die Christus is nie? Waar sê die Bybel dat Christus die amp is waarin Jesus gestaan het?

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    2. Translation:
      “The fact that there is a debate within the OAC regarding the historical Jesus shows that there is room for healthy open conversation, which otherwise leads to all kinds of accusations in the Dutch Reformed Church when the same debate takes place.
      A distinction must be made between Jesus, who was a historical person, who lived and died in Judea in the first century (presumably). Because there are many contradictions in the Gospels about the time Jesus lived, it is impossible to determine exactly when he was alive. Christ, on the other hand, is the office in which Jesus stood. Jesus lived for a limited time while Christ, the Son of God, was there from the beginning (ref Gen 1, and John 1: 1). Christ is at all times the same and unchanging, therefore he cannot be taken away from man.”

      English:
      Dear Melt, the fact that there is a debate within the OAC regarding the historical Jesus shows that there isn’t unity within the OAC and that the so-called “gifts” are in disagreement. The OAC’s “apostles” have been teaching their communities to speak with “one mouth”, but the teachings differ from “apostle” to “apostle”. Not all the “apostleships” have a Home Tuition Calendar and those that do, don’t always coincide.
      There is no distinction to be made between Jesus and Christ, Jesus is the Christ (John 20:30-31, 1 John 2:22, 1 John 5:1). Where did you read about contradictions in the Gospels about the time Jesus lived? Christ is the Messiah, Son of God, the Word that was there in the beginning (John 1:1-3). The Word was made flesh (John 1:14) and the apostles knew Him as Jesus before He ascended back up to heaven (Acts 1:6-11). In His place He sent the Comforter, the Holy Ghost so that He is always with us (John 16:5-11).

      Afrikaans:
      Beste Melt, die feit dat daar 'n debat is binne in die OAK ten opsigte van die historiese Jesus wys dat daar geen eenheid binne die OAK is nie en dat die sogenaamde “gawes” nie saamstem nie. Die OAK se “apostels” het hul gemeentes geleer om met “een mond” te praat, maar die leringe verskil van “apostel” tot “apostel”. Nie al die “apostelskapskappe” het 'n Tuis Onderrig Kalender nie, en hulle stem nie altyd ooreen nie.
      Daar is geen onderskeid tussen Jesus en Christus nie; Jesus is die Christus (Johannes 20:30-31, 1 Johannes 2:22, 1 Johannes 5:1). Waar het u gelees oor teenstrydighede in die Evangelies oor die tyd wat Jesus geleef het? Christus is die Messias, Seun van God, die Woord wat daar in die begin was (Johannes 1:1-3). Die Woord het vlees geword (Johannes 1:14) en die apostels het Hom geken as Jesus voordat Hy na die hemel opgevaar het (Handelinge 1:6-11). In sy plek het Hy die Trooster, die Heilige Gees, gestuur sodat Hy altyd by ons is (Johannes 16:5-11).

      Delete
    3. LOL Melt, jou stelling is skynheiligheid op die hoogste vlak, gaan lees bietjie hoe apostolies allerhande beskuldigings teen mekaar maak op hul facebook bladsye..

      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/1968914880002778/

      Delete
    4. Eish Melt, ek glo nie jy weet waarvan jy praat nie, was jy al ooit op facebook? Meer as ‘n jaar gelede toe die oudsters, priesters en onderdiakens nog admins was en almal het meer vryelik gepraat, het die debat oor Jesus behoorlik gegons en selfs die amptes het behoorlik onder mekaar ingeklim. Baie lede is sleggese en geblok. Die OAK was besig om te split! Lees maar self, hier is ‘n paar gesprekke. Gesonde oop gesprek se voet:

      https://www.facebook.com/groups/1968914880002778/permalink/1984160868478179/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/1968914880002778/permalink/2065482097012722/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/1968914880002778/permalink/1970389929855273/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/1968914880002778/permalink/1977548525806080/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/1968914880002778/permalink/1977125462515053/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/766123016861179/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/941770429296436/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/1007237039416441/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/920786934728119/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/1014301678709977/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/970302186443260/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/886117274861752/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/988809151259230/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/902052693268210/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/828503977289749/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/1019249161548562/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/934906249982854/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/1013982145408597/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/984408925032586/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/permalink/1014207488719396/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D

      Delete
    5. kry nie die facebook nie op die links nie sal graag wil sien wat hulle se

      Delete
    6. Die gesprekke is op geslote groepe, jy moet eers aansoek doen om by hulle aan te sluit. Probeer om eers by hierdie twee groepe aan te sluit, dan sal jy die gesprekke daar kan sien:
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/687000158106799/
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/1968914880002778/

      Delete
  40. Melt, Ek dink iewers is n skroef los in die stelling wat jy maak.
    Waar was Christus voor die opstanding ?

    ReplyDelete
  41. T.O.K Apostel Vermaak (KZN en Namibië)
    Woensdag 22 Augustus
    21) Ons moet verstaan wat dit beteken om toegewyd aan ‘n lewe in Christus te wees. Ons lewe in die Kerk word geeste-lik en natuurlik gevorm deur die voorbeeld en leiding in die Skrifte want dit getuig van die Here. Dit getuig ook van die feit dat ons, ons lewe in die Vader, deur die Seun Jesus Christus, die Kerk kanaliseer!
    Joh 5v39, Joh 14v6.

    H.T.C Apostle Vermaak (KZN and Namibia)
    Wednesday 22 August
    21) We must understand what it means to be commit-ted to a life in Jesus Christ. Our life in the Church is shaped both spiritually and naturally on the example and guidance found in Sriptures, for they testify of the Lord. Scriptures testify also of the fact that we must channel our life in the Father through Jesus Christ, the Church!
    Joh 5v39, Joh 14v6.

    Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

    Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    … We must understand what it means to be commit-ted to a life in Jesus Christ… Jesus Christ, the Church… ??? For how long is the OAC going to deny Jesus as the only Lord and Saviour??? Read the whole Bible and wake up!!!

    ReplyDelete
  42. Mat24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many (verse 24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    Now this is where the problem lies. Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? the same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. the same Jesus, not the OAC the same one .

    ReplyDelete
  43. As die oak lede dan se dat Jesus reeds gekom het dan glo hulle gld nie in die bybel nie veral waar Jesus self se Hy eendag weerkom Hy gaan na Sy Vader toe in die hemel so ook getuig Sy Apostels ook daarvan nou wil ek graag weet as hulle die oak lede so se waneer het Jesus dan gekom en waar is die hemel dan waar Hy heen gegaan het

    ReplyDelete
  44. The oac do not except the fact that Jesus went to heaven. The reason is, then they must believe in the resurrection of Jesus, which they dont,
    that is why they are Antichrist's. The name Jesus is a stumbling block unto them. Jesus said (John 16:7) " Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." This is the most difficult text for them to understand. Jesus said he "is going away" the oac cant grasp this.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Johan, jy is reg met daai teks want Jesus lieg nie as hy dit se nie maar die ou apostolies sal dit verdraai om hulle geloof tepas hulle sal dit ook nie erken nie want dan sal baie van hul eie lede hul aanvat en vra wat gaan aan ek wens net dat hulle die bybel sal lees en glo wat daarin staan en nie mens van vandag nie want die mens van vandag kan dit verdraai soos hy voel en baie glo dit en nie die bybel as hulle moet erken dat Jesus weer eendag gaan kom is hulle kerk leeg en hulle apostels sonder werk en geld dis die groot rede

    ReplyDelete
  46. dit lyk my sodra iemand die oac lede en ampte iets vra aangaande die bybel wat hulle nie kan verklaar nie raak hulle stil of is dit dalk dat hulle ontbloot is en dan bang is om te antwoord en dat hulle besef dat die gene wat vrae vra en tekse gee die waarheid praat

    ReplyDelete
  47. Jesus, (the One the OAC denied) is the Way,the Truth and the Life.
    no man cometh unto the Father but by Me. The OAC say they are the way, they are Jesus. But we know they are the false Prophets who do not believe in Jesus. Their Jesus is still lying in a grave.
    Therefore they are the Antichrist.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Waar is die oak lede hul ampte en die apostels wat op die blok is nou is hulle stil

    ReplyDelete
  49. The OAC were on the right path a long time ago. Right about the time of its start in 1927.

    But since then it's been a downward spiral where the officers who have no education continue to teach what they "think" is the truth.

    It gets worse every generation.
    Here are some of the most frightening teachings that are now making the rounds:

    1.The Holy Trinity is not three persons. There is only one person. (They don't understand why the Hymn book says "God in three persons")

    2. That my conscience will judge me or Christ in me will judge me. (Not realising that we will all stand infront of the real and actual Jesus who will judge us all).

    3. God did not create the physcial earth. He only created the spiritual mind of understanding. (Big problem because it suggests that creation is not from God and God HImself is a concept that exists in the minds of members).

    4. The communion is our sacrifice and our work.
    (I was there when the Apostle taught that the first drop of blood is our own blood. That was a decade ago. NOW the blood is our blood. Heresey after heresy.)

    5. That only Old Apostolics are made in the image of God. (This means that other people are dead souls. This understanding kills the compassion for fellow humans. The real original Christian teaching is that ALL people are made in God's image which is "free will", "the ability to love" , "the ability to create", "the ability to choose God".

    Thank you Ex-OAC Critic. I once mocked you. Now I ask forgiveness knowing that I was deceived by a doctrine that changes every few years and that has turned away from the Lord Jesus. I pray for all OAC members. They are sincere people that need the True and Living God, Jesus Christ: God who became a human, Fully God Fully Man as per confession of faith.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank-you Christian, I appreciate your comments and I really don't mind being mocked for sharing the truth. It's difficult for anyone to have their beliefs challenged and I can fully understand why staunch OAC members would mock me. I believe the Holy Spirit will work with them until they eventually see the Truth. I forgive you just as Jesus forgave me by shedding His blood for me, welcome to His fold my brother in Christ.

      Delete
  50. Praise the Lord, another oac member, saw the light. Continue the light and testimony of Jesus Christ, Ex_OAC critic

    ReplyDelete
  51. OAK TOK/OAC HTC
    10) Heilige Skrif: N T: I & II Thessalonicense: Die Apostel vermaan die gelowiges in [I THE] om hulle alledaagse lewe volgens God se wil te leef. In [II THE] word die gelowiges wat swaarkry, aangemoedig om te volhard in die geloof sodat hulle lidmaatskap van Jesus Christus, die Kerk, volkome kan wees. [I THE 5:1-9]

    10) Holy Scripture: NT: I & II Thessalonians. The Apostle urges the believers in [I THE] to live their daily lives according to the will of God. In [II THE], suffering members are encouraged to persevere in the faith to ensure that their membership in Jesus Christ, the Church, is perfectly whole. [I THE 5:1-9]

    1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
    1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
    1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
    1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
    1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    … persevere in the faith to ensure that their membership in Jesus Christ, the Church…??? You guys obviously didn’t read further than verse 9!!! How convenient!!!

    1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
    1Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

    Did the OAC die for you on the cross???

    ReplyDelete
  52. Hier word die waarheid gepraat die OAC het vir niemand op die kruis gesterf nie hulle het eers in 1927 tot stand gekom

    ReplyDelete
  53. OAK TOK/OAC HTC
    17) [III] Belofte van God: Die Ewige Lewe: In die eerste brief van Johannes, meld hy dat dit opgeteken is, dat God ons die ewige lewe gegee het, en dié lewe is in Sy Seun, Jesus Christus, die Kerk. [2 PET 1:1-4,11; I JOH 5:11-13]

    17) [III] Promise of God: Eternal Life. God will give us eternal life, through faith in His Son, Jesus Christ. [JOH 17:3] In the first epistle of John, he states that it is on record that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son, Jesus Christ, the Church. [I JOH 5:11-13; 2 PET 1:1-4,11]

    2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
    2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
    2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
    2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
    2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

    1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
    1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
    1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

    …His Son, Jesus Christ, the Church…???
    And so the OAC and their “apostles” continue to deny Jesus as Lord and Savior by referring to themselves as the Son of God!!! Members of the OAC, WAKE UP!!!

    ReplyDelete
  54. From the beginning of time men (man and woman) want to be gods. Adam and Eve were deceived by the devil with these words " Gen 2:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." The oac also want to be god
    They are the Antichrist who exalted them self to be like God.

    ReplyDelete
  55. OAK TOK/OAC HTC
    8) Geloofsbelydenis: Laaste Geloofstelling: Tweede Tema: Eer Gee erkenning aan iets of iemand en betoon respek daarvoor. Net soos daar van ons verwag word om eer aan God die Vader te gee, so word dit ook verwag dat ons eer aan Sy Seun, Jesus Christus, die Kerk, sal bewys. [MAL 1:6; JOH 5:23]

    8) Confession of Faith: Last Tenet: Second Theme: Honour: To recognise and have respect for something or someone. Just as we are expected to honour God the Father, so too must we honour His Son, Jesus Christ the Church. [MAL 1:6 ; JOH 5:23]

    Mal 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

    Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

    …so too must we honour His Son, Jesus Christ the Church…??? Jesus of Nazareth is God’s only begotten SON you ignorant bunch of false apostles!!!

    ReplyDelete
  56. OAK TOK/OAC HTC
    5) Geloofsbelydenis: Laaste Geloofstelling: Derde Tema: “Ter wille van die Here” Die “Here” verwys na die Kerk, sy lede en instellings. “Ter wille van die Here” verwys derhalwe na die dinge wat tot die Kerk se voordeel is; om die belange van die Kerk te bevorder en dit nie te verneder, in ‘n verleentheid of tot skande te bring nie. [MAT 5:13-16]

    5) Confession of Faith: Last Tenet: Third Theme: “For the Lord’s sake” The “Lord” refers to the Church, its members and institutions. “For the Lord’s sake” therefore refers to those things that are beneficial to the Church; to advance the Church and not embarrass or bring it into disrepute. [MAT 5:13-16]

    Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
    Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
    Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
    Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

    … The “Lord” refers to the Church, its members and institutions…??? The LORD our GOD is one LORD you ignorant bunch of false apostles!!! Go and read a Bible!!! Read Deu 6:4-5, Mar 12:29-31, 1Co 8:5-6, Eph 4:4-6!!!

    ReplyDelete
  57. Ons het November 2019 konferansie lering gekry en die vraag het vanaf Evangelis Barends gekom ‘Wie is my en u God?’ daar het antwoorde gekom van ‘die Priest, die owergestelde’ en Evangelis se antwoord was ‘die Broer en die Suster’. Ek glo dit vir ‘n lang tyd so.

    Eersterivier se velde

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Translation:
      We received a conference teaching in November 2019 and the question came from Evangelist Barends 'Who is my and your God?' There were answers like 'the Priest, the overplaced' and Evangelist's answer was 'the Brother and the Sister'. I believe so for a long time.

      Your “Evangelist” is lost and he’s misleading you! Only one God created us, not a brother or sister (Malachi 2:10). Jesus was not referring to His brother and sister as God but rather those who do the will of God as His brother and His sister and mother (Mark 3:31-35). A brother you can physically see but God you cannot physically see (1 John 4:7-21).

      Delete
    2. How many gods do you people have? Your officers are telling lies. Please read Isaiah 43:10 “Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.” Also read Isaiah
      Chapter 44 6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

      Delete
    3. Priester wys ons dat apostel se as ons in die woord van die Priester bly dan sal ons nie besmet word met die virus nie

      (Quigney, ds@ec.oldapostolic.com)

      Delete
    4. Translation:
      “Priest shows us that apostle says if we stay in the word of the priest then we will not be infected with the virus”

      Dear OAC “Priest” and your OAC “apostle”, I bet you have no Scriptural basis for your statement. The OAC’s “Circular from the Conference of Apostles regarding Covid-19 to Provincial/District/Regional Head Offices, Fourfold Officers and Elders” of 18 March 2020 stated, and I quote:
      “…The outbreak of the Covid-19 virus reminds us of our reliance upon nature…”
      “…It is prudent for us to yield to medical and health advice…”
      “…2.1 All Apostles will place a hold on their annual Sealing programmes…”
      “…2.2 All congregational activities at Church halls and other facilities used for congregational gatherings will be suspended…”
      “…2.3 Funerals may be held, provided that the number of attendees does not exceed the maximum number specified by the relevant authorities…”
      “…2.4 Wedding services should be postponed until further notice…”
      “…Shaking of hands is an engrained practice in the Church, but the COVID-19 situation is demanding special measures. Members and officers should until further notice refrain from shaking hands when they greet each other…”
      The above measures are based on recommendations from the World Health Organization, not the “word of the priest”. By the way, Annas and Caiaphas were the high priests, but the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness (Luke 3:1-22). Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar (Proverbs 30:5-6).

      Delete
    5. Prior to the virus outbreak you had to be on your "place", otherwise you dint get salvation. If you were sick, you have to show a doctor's note. Then only were you excused. How pathetic is the oak. Now it is fine to stay at home, because the government says so. And I assume for staying at home now will give you salvation.

      Delete
    6. I’ve tested positive for the corona and i have pneumonia! Been n the hospital for a week dying! Well at least that’s wat it feels like ! This thing is a monster! Not being able to breathe is one of the worse feelings in the world!!! It’s not a game ppl 😔 plz pray for me 🙏🏾

      Delete
    7. EK wil graag met u iets deel. Jare trug in die 70 ,s: Ek dink ek was besig om klas te loop, toe het daar i gaaf deurgekom wat se:"Daar sal i tyd kom dat ons as Apostolies nie die huis sal kan verlaat om diens by te woon nie. Dis nou 2020. Ook het Apostel Petersen ook destyds genoem dat terwyl Die Leer Van Die Apostel hier in Suid- Afrika is, niks sal gebeur wat nie moet gebeur nie. Hy het ook genoem dat die Apostelleer alle onheil hier sal hokslaan. Die tyd is hier , nou, voor ons deur. Waarom al die koorsagtige haas. Waarom al die twyfel geliefdes in Christus. Bly gesond, veilig & geestelik & natuurlik gesond.

      Delete
    8. Translation:
      “I would like to share something with you. Years back in the 70 ,s: I think I was attending class, there was a gift that came through saying, "There will come a time when we as Apostolics will not be able to leave the house to attend service. It is now 2020. Apostle Petersen also mentioned at the time that while the Doctrine of the Apostle is here in South Africa, nothing would happen that should not happen. He also mentioned that the Apostle Doctrine will defeat all evil. The time is here, now, before our door. Why all the feverish rushing. Why all the doubt beloved in Christ. Stay healthy, safe & spiritually & naturally healthy.”

      A lot of things can happen and change in 50 years. The OAC’s doctrine has also changed over the years and isn’t even close to what the OAC’s founding father, Carl Klibbe, believed in. When your church claims to be the Lord and Christ then your prayers are directed at a false Christ. Jesus’ original twelve apostles received supernatural powers to cure diseases and heal the sick (Luke 9:1-2). God also wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul (Acts 19:11-20). The original true apostles never glorified a man-made organization or claimed that they were the collective glorified Jesus, they glorified Jesus of Nazareth as the Christ.

      Delete
    9. If our God of Israel is with us,fear not beloved no virus shall penetrate our bodies.Stay in the Hollow of His Hands����

      Delete
    10. #Goeie Dagse, Geliefde in die Here🙏❤️Vanoggend, wil die Heilige Broergaaf, tot U die God van Israel, n Lewendige God, bid wat woon in n Lewendige mens. God het alreeds geopenbaar deur die Heilige Profetiesegawe. Die Gees, Covid 19 is gebind & gestop op die Aarde en in die Hemel. Die nuus is daar vir die natuurlike deel om te kyk. Dit lyk Israel, glo nie, maar ek weet as Broeder, watter krag God weggele het in Aardsgevaarte/Erdekruike. Die Konferansie van Apostels, vergader volgens die skrywe om 9am, vandag. Laat ons bid bly in die Eenheid van die Geloof, in die Breking van die brood. Sodat die Israel, volk die krag van God, sal sien in Sy volle Glorie. Met die wete dat ons Geestelike & Natuurlike, werke het om te verrig. Daar is trane van blydskap terwyl ek tot U, bid. Baie Dankie, Geliefde in Christrus. 🙏❤️

      Delete
    11. Goeie dag familie in Christus vandag kom ek net die dankbaarheid bring tot u vir die gebede wat uitgegaan het vir die wat positief getoets was vir die Covid-19 virus.Ons glo mos een bid vir almal en almal vir een want vandag kan ek sê dat ek deur u gebede ñ Covid-19 Survivor is.Dit was ñ tawwe pad na herstel daarom bid ek tot u wees gehoorsaam.STAY HOME.STAY SAFE... Geseënde week vorentoe ❤️🙏🙌

      Delete
    12. There's a current total of 56 Apostolics who contracted Covid-19. in WC region. So let's start changing our attitude towards this pendemic, respect the regulations in place and practice good hygiene. I bet some of them also said... "This will never happe to me" but it did. Some also might have said; "Ek vrees nie die virus nie". Bottom line is, follow the guidelines that were put in place to prevent contracting the virus.

      Delete
    13. SJulle het geen mag nie, nie eens die apostel het mag nie. Pandemics, epidemics, wars, natural disasters, etc. Without disasters the world would be over-populated. Nature has a way of dealing with things. Its called the 'great equalizer'. More than a hundred million people has died over the last 5000 years through a combination of natural disasters, sickness like flu virus', plagues, malaria, aids and culturally constructed processes affected by social power dynamics.

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    14. Nolan Weich lmklaaa my bru.Die jongste persoon is 47.die ander is bo 70 , 80 jaar.Die vraag is , wat gaan aan.Hoekom 21 dae.Hoekom het jy skielik covid nadat jy getoets word.Hoekom word alles stop gesit.Seelug is die beste cure vir enige siekte.Kom ek se jou wat se die profeet.Almal is by di huis , sekeres mag werk.Om iets groot of mense in te bring in land .gebruik jy n hawe.Jy gebruik n spoorlyn om goed binneland in te vervoer.Vragmotors gebruik jy vir vinnige stedelike vervoer in di nag.Ons almal slaap mos vroeg nou.As die virus regtig so kwaai was hier by ons, so hier al massa grafte gewees het.Ons landleiers het vooraf geweet wat kom.Ons profete het dit voorspel.Dus n jammerte dat die mens die profete wou doodmaak, tydens profesie gawes.Dit het dan n ketting reaksie.lede skryf nie gesigte af nie.so lei dit dat lede nie drome afskryf nie.Moet nooit deel wees aan dit om die Leer van Apostel en Profete te wil verander nie.Dan wys God ons die laaste boek in Openbaring.Die virus is by die wat in die virus glo.Amen Sela.

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    15. Ons as apestolies ht die Mag Om die Virus WEG testuur .die Virus is eintlik n boose gees wat in getree het

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    16. Don't fear anything coronavirus will not come to you, pray & curse that demonic spirits in Jesus name fire🔥 AMEN 🙏 beloved
      As long we believe in God, he will protect us from this bad spirit Covid-19.

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    17. Wear ur mask,wash ur hand and social distancing.......this is the only way to beat The virus when u act responsible.......it is not a demon not even a spirit ......it's a Virus

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    18. Elisha Silas Ngobeni
      It's a demonic spirits, you can follow the instructions by wearing musk 😷 and wash... but the biggest way is to pray and curse and chase away this bad spirit in Jesus Christ name 🙏

      On Monday this week I was visited my Deacon, and he was weak because he don't see priest in his house and he not allowed to go and see 👁️👁️ Priest but he was happy to see me, and he thank God for that and we break 🍞 bread and Holy Spirit says to us we must pray and chase away the demonic spirits, 👐🙏 glory alellujah Amen 🙏

      I wear musk 😷 only inside a taxi or at work it's instruction I follow because we are not allowed to enter in inside without musk,
      But on the street i don't wear, and when we meet Beloved Brothers we don't wear musk, and when I meet with Deacon and priest we don't wear musk.

      Don't follow our faith Beloved, and i can't change you from this and you can't change me, so is better to leave this topic because it does not help us to debet

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    19. My family and friends I just want to share with you that I have been tested Positive for Covid 19, this virus is not for the faint hearted. My whole body aches my chest feels tight my head feels it want to explode. This is not an easy road . People please be careful out there . There is no meds they give you only pain tablets and Coughing mixer and you have to boost your immune system. Pls stay safe ❤️

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    20. Sterkte sis een bid vir almal en almal bid vir een maak vir sis a jug met rooi bos tee met suurlemoen garlic ginger 2stukke kaneel 2 naartjies laat dit 🙏lekke deur trek drink a koppie baie warm met a tee lepel honey in

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    21. Apostolic ons glo dat een bid vir almal en almal bid vir een wereld sonder end so waar pas corona virus in amen

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    22. X het covid19 maar x vrees ni ,dus waar geloof inskop, my heiland dra kennis van my ,x self isolate Nou vir 14 dae ,geliefdes di stigma vani virus moet ons ni afskrik ni ,trust n obey ,daar is n geneesheer in Israel vi ons gestel,x gee Admin toestemming on my post te plaas

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    23. Jou geloof sal jou red en genees en God sal jou die geleentheid gee om ñ lewende getuie daarvan te wees. Drink suurlemoen water met gemmer knoffel cayenne pepper en kwart rooi dispren onder jou tong elke dag. Oudste September

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    24. Dag oudste September hoe word handelswerk toe gepas in hierdie geval,as ek mag vra ,as ek uit my beurt uit is vra ek verskoning

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    25. Elrico Booysen die voorbereiding was gedoen duer di priester via watsup,sondag 10uur gani die Oudste n sy Suster by hul woning di handelswerk down,die Oudste suster staan in vi ons

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    26. Ek glo genesing van Covid le in die hande van ons die Apostolie se volk.. Apostle Brand altyd gese ons is a Peculiar Nation.. Help ons Here om trug te keer na ons eerste vurige lewe en as a volk saam te staan en bid en dan sal U ons land genees.. Geestelik sowel as Natuurlik

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    27. Glo in ons wat die volk van die ou apostolies is Dan sal u genees geestelik sowel as natuurlik amen brother

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    28. Smeer di bloed op di duer poste om dai geste uit te hou

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    29. That's how we must believe in our GOD and in our Priest coz me and my daughter's test was negative we serve a true living GOD.... Amen my brother

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  58. Goeiedag geliefde hiermee n paar gedagtes vir elke huis priester more:

    Die tyd waarin ons is kan vir baie n problem wees of ons kan dit sien as n geleentheid om die huispriester en huispriesteres die geleentheid te gee om die huwelik en Doop verbonde daadwerklik uit te dra. Hebreers 7v26 beskryf hierdie priester as een wat heilig, onskuldig, onbesmet en afgeskeie van die sondaars is. Elke huispriester en huispriesteres kry nou die geleentheid om al hierdie eienskappe ten toon te stel. Hierdie is ook n geleentheid om daadwerklik te wys dat ons nie meer die dinge van die vlees bedink nie. Ons is weergebore deur die Gees. Ons denke en dade weerspieel dit. As wedergeborenes en geestelike mense besef ons dat die avonmaal n geestelike fees is van God se kinders. Jesus se vir sy dissipels in Johannes 6v35 dat hy die brood van die lewe is. Wie na Hom toe kom sal nooit honger kry nie. Hierdie brood besit die eienskap van lewe. In Johannes 6v51 verklaar Jesus dat die wat van die brrod eet vir ewig sal lewe. Dit bring by elkeen die vraag: Kan ek met oortuiging se dat ek die brood van die lewe is. Besit ek die eienskap om lewe aan ander te gee? Daar is n spreekwoord wat se dat n mens is wat jy eet. Indien ek dus brood (lewe) vir andere wil wees Moet ek self brood eet. Die brood wat uit die Hemel neergedaal het is Christus die kerk. Ek eet van hierdie brood wanneer ek God se Wil openbaar. In Johannes 4v34 verklaar Jesus dat sy voedsel is om die Wil van die Vader te doen. Ek word dus aanbaarbaar (eetbaar) by andere wanneer ek die Wil van die Vader doen.

    Korinthiers 11v25 : Hierdie beker is die nuwe testament in my bloed:doen dit tot my gedagtenis. God het alles nuut gemaak deur die wedergeboorte. N baba word nie met ou hande of grys hare gebore nie. Alles is nuut. Dit is juis daarom dat God n nuwe verbond met ons gesluit het. Ons Sal vir hom seuns en dogters wees en Hy Sal vir ons n Vader wees. Ons drink met waardigheid uit die beker wanneer ons die verbond wat ons gesluit het nakom.

    Avonmaal is dus n geestelike fees van wedergebore siele. God se verbondsvolk. 1kor 11v33 se: daarom my Broeder, as julle saamkom om te eet, wag vir mekaar. Lees ook vers 34.
    Mag elke familie n geseende geleentheid he wwetend dat ons sonde vergewe is deur die genade van God die Vader deur sy seun Christus Jesus. Wees veilig. Seengroete aan elkeen. Opsiener Norman en Profeet Landrew

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    1. Translation:
      “Good day beloved, here are some thoughts for every house priest tomorrow:

      The time that we are in can be a problem for many or we can see it as an opportunity to give the house priest and priestess the opportunity to truly carry out the marriage and Baptism covenants. Hebrews 7v26 describes this priest as one who is holy, innocent, undefiled, and separated from sinners. Every house priest and house priestess now have the opportunity to display all these qualities. This is also an opportunity to show that we are no longer thinking about the things of the flesh. We are born again by the Spirit. Our thinking and actions reflect this. As born-again and spiritual people, we realize that the communion is a spiritual feast of God's children. Jesus tells his disciples in John 6v35 that he is the bread of life. Whoever comes to Him will never go hungry. This bread possesses the characteristic of life. In John 6v51 Jesus declares that those who eat of the bread will live forever. This brings to everyone the question: Can I say with conviction that I am the bread of life? Do I possess the ability to give life to others? There is a proverb that says you are what you eat. So if I want to be bread (life) for others, I have to eat bread myself. The bread that came down from Heaven is Christ the Church. I eat of this bread when I reveal God's will. In John 4v34, Jesus states that His food is to do the will of the Father. So I become acceptable (edible) to others when I do the Will of the Father.

      Corinthians 11v25: This cup is the new testament in my blood: do it in remembrance of me. God made everything new by being born again. A baby is not born with old hands or gray hair. Everything is new. That is precisely why God has made a new covenant with us. We will be sons and daughters to Him and He will be our Father. We drink from the cup with dignity as we observe the covenant we made.

      Avonmaal is thus a spiritual festival of born again souls. God's covenant people. 1 Cor 11v33 says: therefore, my Brother, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. Also read verse 34.
      May every family have a blessed opportunity knowing that our sin has been forgiven through the grace of God the Father through His Son Christ Jesus. Be safe. Blessings to everyone. Overseer Norman and Prophet Landrew”

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    2. Dear “overseer” and “prophet”, thank you so much for sharing the above with us. There are some things you and your congregations really need to know.

      Regarding your statement:
      “…Hebrews 7v26 describes this priest as one who is holy, innocent, undefiled, and separated from sinners. Every house priest and house priestess now have the opportunity to display all these qualities…”;
      Please read that whole chapter (Hebrews 7:1-28) to understand the context, it has absolutely nothing to do with a “house priest” or “house priestess”. Melchisedec was a king and priest in Salem (King of righteousness and King of peace). Abraham paid tithes to this Melchisedec, Abraham who was the great grandfather of Levi. Levi’s descendents would become the Levitical priesthood after the order of Aaron. The order of Melchisedec existed long before the order of Aaron, without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life like the Son of God whose priesthood is eternal. He did not need to offer up daily sacrifices for His own and people’s sins like those who became high priests by the law, for this He did just ONCE when He offered up Himself! Christ Jesus is the ONLY Apostle and High Priest forever, nobody else.

      Regarding your statement:
      “…the communion is a spiritual feast of God's children…”;
      We are saved by grace through faith, not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9), by Jesus’ own blood (Matthew 26:28). We remember His sacrifice for us (Luke 22:19) and we look forward to sharing the cup again with Christ in the kingdom of God (Matthew 26:29, Mark 14:25, Luke 22:18). As often as we eat this bread, and drink this cup, we shew the Lord's death till he come (1 Corinthians 11:26).

      Regarding your statements and questions:
      “…Jesus tells his disciples in John 6v35 that he is the bread of life. Whoever comes to Him will never go hungry. This bread possesses the characteristic of life. In John 6v51 Jesus declares that those who eat of the bread will live forever. This brings to everyone the question: Can I say with conviction that I am the bread of life? Do I possess the ability to give life to others?…”;
      The most dangerous lie is a half truth and here unfortunately you have totally lost the plot!
      JESUS said: “I AM the bread of life: he that cometh to ME shall never hunger; and he that believeth on ME shall never thirst.” (John 6:35)
      By equating Himself with bread, JESUS is saying HE is essential for ETERNAL LIFE! He did not say “YOU” or “THEY” should become the bread of life!

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    3. Regarding your statement:
      “…The bread that came down from Heaven is Christ the Church. I eat of this bread when I reveal God's will. In John 4v34, Jesus states that His food is to do the will of the Father. So I become acceptable (edible) to others when I do the Will of the Father…”;
      Unfortunately your sermon is going from bad to worse and you are leading your congregations astray!
      JESUS said: “I AM the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of THIS bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is MY FLESH, which I will give for the life of the world.” (John 6:51)
      He did not say “MY CHURCH” or “MY DISCIPLES” came down from heaven!
      JESUS is the WORD that became FLESH (John 1:1-14) which was offered as only ONE sacrifice just ONCE for all forever (Hebrews 10:5-12)!

      Regarding your statement:
      “…Corinthians 11v25: This cup is the new testament in my blood: do it in remembrance of me. God made everything new by being born again. A baby is not born with old hands or gray hair. Everything is new…”;
      Here you are confusing communion with being born again. I already discussed communion and I gave you the relevant references.
      JESUS said: “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3)
      How often do you think one can be born again? Before you answer that question perhaps you should first go read your Bible (John 1:12-13, 2 Corinthians 5:17, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 1:3, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 4:7, 1 John 5:1-4, 1 John 5:18).

      Regarding your statement:
      “…1 Cor 11v33 says: therefore, my Brother, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. Also read verse 34…”;
      I would like to suggest that you at least start reading from 1 Corinthians 11:17 all the way to verse 34 to fully grasp and understand the full context of what Paul was trying to convey to the Corinthians.

      PLEASE READ YOUR BIBLE, I BEG OF YOU!

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  59. Im a OLD APOSTOLIC MEMBER AND WILL ALWAYS BE .. EX MEMBER YOU REALLY HAVE SO MUCH TIME TO TALK SO MUCH BAD THINGS ABOUT US..YOU JUST TALKING ABOUT THE OAC YOU KNOW WHY??BECAUSE U KNOW THAT WE ARE THE WAY TO HEAVEN ...

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    1. Interesting comment, thanks for sharing how informed you are and showing us your true colors. The Bible may hurt you with the truth but it will never comfort you with a lie because a lie hurts forever, I urge you to read the whole Bible. You might be interested in the following posts to see if I really think you “ARE THE WAY TO HEAVEN”:
      Doctrine - Kingdom of God
      The REAL Jesus
      Jesus is the ONLY Messiah
      Doctrine - 7th heaven
      I pray for you and I hope that one day you may get to know the Way, the Truth and the Life.

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  60. Geliefde Oudstes
    Hier is wat ek vir die Vader gevra en dit is nou vas gemaak vir die 3de. Junie om 18:00 kan u dit vir almal in u verantwoordelikheid stuur(SMS of Whatsapp of e-mail) en verduidelik dat presies om 18:00 al die Apostolies in gebed oopmaak en afbid wat die Vader vir ons voorse . LAAT DIE VOLK SAAMSTAAN EN WEER DIE GELOOF IN DIE WOORD HERVESTIG WANT DIE GEBED SAL GOD VERHOOR WAT SY KINDERS VRA .DIT GLO EK (Opsiener wat daar gestel is om die winde vas te hou)
    Baie lede het my gevra dat hoekom staan ons nie saam dat die VIRUS moet verdwyn nie dit is wat hulle in die vroee dae gedoen het .Wel hier is dit nou
    Groete
    Van Opsiener en Suster wat vol moed is
    P.J.Scheepers
    Geliefde VVA’e,
    Die pandemie wat tans amok maak in die wêreld het ook die kinders van God negatief geraak, vir party meer as ander. In die lig van hierdie onsekere tye en ons vertroue in God en ons geloof dat Hy altyd in beheer is, roep die Apostel en Suster elke lid en Huispriesterskap tot gebed tydens ons Familie-aand op Woensdag 3 Junie om 18:00.
    Dit is ons begeerte dat ons op daardie tydstip almal in gebed sal wees en die Here onderandere die volgende afbid:
    Eerstens ons dankbaar vir Sy beskerming en liefde
    Dat die Here sal intree en ‘n oplossing vir die pandemie tot die mens sou bring
    Dat die Here Sy hand oor elkeen van Sy kinders sal hou
    Dat ons nooit sal twyfel in Sy krag en liefde nie
    Dat elke Huispriesterskap geseënd sal wees in hul basiese behoeftes
    Dat ons spoedig weer ons Apostoliese lewe sal kan uit leef, en
    Dat ons gehoorsaam aan die landswette sal wees en altyd die nodige voorsorgmaatreëls sal toepas.
    AMEN

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    1. Interessant dat u brief aan u “Oudstes” begin met “Hier is wat ek vir die Vader gevra…” en eindig met ‘n brief van u “owergestelde” af, u Apostel en Suster”, dus u “Vader”. Is u “Vader” dan magteloos om ‘n einde te bring aan die pandemie? Moet almal dan eers fisies om dieselfde tyd deur hulle onderskeie “owergestelde” bid tot by u Apostel sodat almal se gebed kan krag dra? Is dit wat Jesus ook van Sy apostels verwag het toe Hy aan hulle mag gegee het om elke siekte en elke kwaal te genees?

      Mattheus 4:23
      En Jesus het deur die hele Galiléa rondgegaan en in hulle sinagoges geleer en die evangelie van die koninkryk verkondig en elke siekte en elke kwaal onder die volk genees.

      Mattheus 9:35
      En Jesus het by al die stede en dorpe rondgegaan en in hulle sinagoges geleer en die evangelie van die koninkryk verkondig en elke siekte en elke kwaal onder die volk genees.

      Mattheus 10:1
      En Hy het sy twaalf dissipels na Hom geroep en aan hulle mag gegee oor onreine geeste, om hulle uit te dryf en om elke siekte en elke kwaal te genees.

      Volgens Apostel Smit” se TOK vir 28 Mei 2020, glo julle in “Jesus Christus, die OAK”.

      Die vurige gebed van ‘n regverdige het groot krag. Elía was ‘n mens net soos ons, en hy het ernstig gebid dat dit nie moes reën nie, en dit het op die aarde drie jaar en ses maande lank nie gereën nie;
      en hy het weer gebid, en die hemel het reën gegee en die aarde het sy vrug laat uitspruit (Jakobus 5:16-18).

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    2. OAK TOK vir Oos Kaap en Noord Kaap (Apostel Smit):
      28 Mei 2020
      MY HELE LEWE
      Verbintenis beteken: ‘n bereidwilligheid om ons hele lewe toe te wei aan dit waarin ons glo. As ons sê dat ons in Jesus Christus, die OAK, glo, beteken dit dat ons, ons hele lewe aan Christus toevertrou. As ons werklik aan Christus toegewei is, moet ons in die basiese beginsels van die Kerk glo en leef daarvolgens na die beste van ons vermoëns. Ongeag van wat teen ons opkom, sal ons nooit die lewe in Christus verlaat nie. Ons verbintenis aan die liggaam van Christus is nie tydelik nie, maar totaal en geheel tot die einde, ‘n totale en volwaardige lewe in die OAK.
      Lees: Psa 23:6 & Psa 27:4

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  61. Dit is vir my verbasend om te sien die hoeveelheid haat wat jy het om met elke woord wat uit 'n OAK lid se mond uit kom daarop kritiek te wil lewer.
    Vra eerstens die vraag; Hoekom moet ons bid ten opsigte van die COVID-19 krisis? Dit is omdat die Staats President dit versoek het. Dit wys dat hy in sy hoedanigheid erken dat 'n hoer hand ingeroep moet word om die krisis te oorkom.
    As lid van die OAK is dit ons verantwoordelikheid om te voldoen aan die versoek van die Staats President. Ons glo tog soos in ons Geloofsbelydenis gestel; "gehoorsaam te wees aan die wettige heersers van die land, al gaan dit met benoudheid gepaard". Persoonlik kan ek getuig dat waar die Staats President dit vroeer versoek het en 'n Nasionale biddag vir reen afgekondig het, het die OAK gehoor gegee aan die versoek en was daar in elke gemeente gebid vir reen. Ook onthou ek persoonlik 'n geleentheid waar wyle Apostel Boshoff gese het "Dit sal reen" het die eerste donderslag weerklink. Dit was die gebeurtenis wat my geloof versterk het.
    Die krag van die Kerk van Christus is nie gele in 'n enkele persoon nie, maar in die eenheid van die Kerk. Die Groot Apostel en Hoepriester van ons geloof is Jesus Christus (Heb 3: 1) wat deur en in ons almal werk
    Eph_4:6  een God en Vader van almal, wat oor almal en deur almal en in julle almal is
    Dieselfde Gees wat deur 'n Apostel werk, werk ook deur my want dit is wat die liggaam van Jesus Christus is.
    Rom_12:5  so is ons almal saam een liggaam in Christus en elkeen afsonderlik lede van mekaar.
    1Co_12:12  Want net soos die liggaam een is en baie lede het, en al die lede van die een liggaam, al is hulle baie, een liggaam is, so ook Christus.
    1Co_12:27  Maar julle is die liggaam van Christus en lede afsonderlik.
    Ons verheerlik nie die persoon wat in die amp van Apostel staan nie. Ons verheerlik Jesus Christus, wat deur middel van die vyf gawes (Efe 4: 11) deur almal werk. Elke lid van die OAK is 'n Apostel, Profeet, Evangelis en Herder en Leeraar, waar hy gaan en in sy huis. Dit is 'n Kerk in Eenheid, gehoorsaam aan die wil van God.
    En as iemand vra dat ons vir hom moet bid, of vir 'n goeie saak moet bid, dan doen ons dit. Die Staats President erken dat hy die hulp van die Almagtige God nodig het, en daarom sal ons aan sy veroek gehoor gee.
    Dit sal 'n getuienis wees van die krag van die Allerhoogste God, die Vader van ons almal.

    Kom ons kyk of jy Mnr Ex-OAC mans genoeg is om hierdie post goed te keur.

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    1. Dit is vir my verbasend hoe OAK lede my eerder daarvan beskuldig van haat as om die onBybelse standpunte wat ek uitwys te verdedig met sinvolle en samehangende argumente vanuit die Bybel. Die stelling wat u maak “Dit is omdat die Staats President dit versoek het” is nie waar nie. Die brief vanaf die “opsiener” vra vir “gebed tydens ons Familie-aand op Woensdag 3 Junie om 18:00”, maar die Staats President het spesifiek gevra vir Sondag 31ste Mei as Nasionale Bid Dag.

      Rakende u stelling:
      “…Die krag van die Kerk van Christus is nie gele in 'n enkele persoon nie, maar in die eenheid van die Kerk…”
      Daarin lê die groot fout, die OAK glo nie dat Jesus van Nasaret weer fisies en bonatuurlik uit die dode opgestaan het nie, daarom glo hulle nie in Sy wederkoms nie. Die Bybel praat net van EEN Jesus, enkelvoud, wat mens geword het in die gestalte van Jesus van Nasaret.

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    2. Terloops, rakende u stelling oor die Staats President wat “vroeer versoek het en 'n Nasionale biddag vir reen afgekondig het, het die OAK gehoor gegee aan die versoek en was daar in elke gemeente gebid vir reen”. Dis fantasties, maar hoekom is die Noord Kaap dan nogsteeds ‘n droogte geteisterde gebied? Die Noord Kaap val mos onder drie “apostels”, naamlik Nong, Smit en Van Wyk?

      Het u geweet dat “wyle Apostel Boshoff” het aan die “apostolaat” in 2001 voorgelê dat Jesus fisies in die vlees (as mens) bestaan het?

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    3. Eish man Melt, dis nie mooi om so te lieg nie. Die VVA as lid van die OAK is mos verantwoordelik om te voldoen aan die versoek van Utata uCyril, nie waar nie? Nou hoekom as Utata uCyril mooi vra dat everybody samblief Sondag bid wil die VVA eers ‘n paar dae later bid as wat Utata uCyril voorgestel het, dan is julle mos ongehoorsaam!? En van wanner af is Utata uCyril nou skielik die VVA se overplaced vader of andersom? Van wanner af is die OAK die hoer hand wat deur Utata uCyril in sy hoedanigheid erken moet word? Verduidelik samblief, ek wil vorstaan.

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    4. In elk geval, 'n versoek vir gebede van die Staats President is 'n teken dat hy erken dat die hand van God hier nodig is, en die hande van God is die Apostels en Profete.

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    5. Geskiedkundig is die Noord-Kaap 'n droee of lae reenval gebied waar gewasse aard wat nie baie water nodig het nie. Dit is ook bekend as die Kalahari. Die Noord-Kaap kry hoofsaaklik sy inkomste uit die myne uit die gebied uit, en skaap plase is gelee langs die riviere in die gebied.
      Die doel van gebed is nie om ontydige reen te bring nie, maar tydige en waar dit nodig is om die land se voedselsekuriteit te verseker.
      Jy kort Kontekstuele Bewustheid. As die land mieliemeel nidig het gaan dit nie uit die Noord-Kaap se diamantmyne uitgehaal word nie. Terloops, die Noord-Kaap is idiaal vir die reeks teleskope in die gebied wat werk verskaf aan baie navorsers en grondvlak werkers. Dit wys net dat jy die Kontekstuele Bewustheid het nie, en ook 'n vraag op so 'n wyse draai om die teendeel te bewys. Moet asseblief net nooit in die regte ingaan nie. Jy sal onskuldige mense in die tronk laat land en skuldiges laat loskom.

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    6. Rakende u stelling:
      “…In elk geval, 'n versoek vir gebede van die Staats President is 'n teken dat hy erken dat die hand van God hier nodig is, en die hande van God is die Apostels en Profete…”;
      Dis glad nie wat die Staats President gesê het nie, hy het ALMAL gevra om te bid, nie net OAK lede nie, en dis ook nie wat in die Bybel geskryf is nie.
      Doctrine - Apostles today
      Doctrine - prophecies, dreams and visions

      Rakende u stelling:
      “…Die doel van gebed is nie om ontydige reen te bring nie, maar tydige en waar dit nodig is om die land se voedselsekuriteit te verseker…”;
      Vertel dit bietjie vir die mense wat daar bly en lig hulle bietjie in oor u “Kontekstuele Bewustheid” en “voedselsekuriteit”:
      Die gesig van droogte is wreed
      Dringende ingryping aangekondig vir droogte in Noord-Kaap
      Noord-Kaap tot rampgebied verklaar
      Droogte sit Noord-Kaap boere onder druk
      In drought-ravaged Northern Cape, government assistance may be too little, too late

      Delete
    7. President Cyril Ramaphosa – 26th May 2020:
      ”My fellow South Africans, This evening, I would like to address you on matters that are of great importance to many people in our country – firstly, the call by religious leaders for a day of prayer as the country unites against the coronavirus pandemic…”

      ”…we acknowledge and welcome the call that has been made by our religious leaders for a day of prayer…”

      ”…In such a time of crisis, the noble values that are shared by all faith communities have truly come to the fore – of charity and doing good works, of helping the needy, of feeding the hungry and caring for the sick…’

      ”…Churches, synagogues, mosques, temples and other recognized places of worship may resume services, but these will be limited in size to 50 people or less…”

      ”…Our faith-based organizations have shown in both word and deed their commitment to the national effort to combat the coronavirus…”

      Melt, hierbo is maar net ‘n paar enkele hoogtepunte vanuit die Staats President se toespraak, ek sien geen aanduiding dat hy erken dat die “Apostels en Profete” hier nodig is nie.

      Delete
  62. Kyk na enige banknoot, sommer een in jou beursie. Wie se handtekening is daarop? 'n Persoon sin wat deur die President aangestel is. Gee aan God wat God toekom, en aan die Keiser wat die Keiser toekom. Ons geloof is om "onderdanig te wees aan die wettige leiers van die land, al gaan dit met benoudheid gepaart.
    Die OAK as instansie en sy welsynsorganisasies moet voldoen aan die vereistes gestel deur die Staat, dit sluit in sonerings permitte, goedgekeurde bouplanne vir sale, rapportering van Direksie veranderinge, voldoening aan vereistes vir NGO's, en vele meer. Die StaatsPresident as hoof van die Staat aan wie die Kerk en sy lede gehoorsaam moet wees.
    Die OAK verkondig die evangelie van Jesus Christus wat vrede, liefde, lankmoedigheid, en verdraagsaamheid verkondig. Om gehoorsaam te wees aan die Staat is om gehoorsaam te wees aan 'n opdrag van Jesus Christus nl; om onderdanig en gehoorsaam te wees aan die wettige heersers van die land, of jy nou met hulle beleid saamstem of nie. Die OAK is nie 'n terroriste organisasie nie, en steun ook nie aksies teen die Staat nie.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. En tog volgens die “opsiener” se brief is die OAK ongehoorsaam aan die Staats President se versoek.

      Delete
    2. Die brief vanaf die “opsiener” vra vir “gebed tydens ons Familie-aand op Woensdag 3 Junie om 18:00”, maar die Staats President het spesifiek gevra vir Sondag 31ste Mei as Nasionale Bid Dag.

      Delete
    3. As ons net kan weg beweeg van die God van verbeelding af, sal alles in plek val.Ons regering hoofde is atieste en het geen behae in God nie.Van wanner af , buig n Apostolie voor die duiwel.?

      Delete
    4. Geliefde Broer Jantjies, ek sal voorstel dat jy die aangeleentheid met jou Priester bespreek.
      Die regering is in Jul posisie met die wil van God en soos ons geloofsbelydenis aandui moet ons die regering en sy wette gehoorsaam wees. Jy hoef nie die regerende party te ondersteun nie, en hoef ook nie vir hulle te stem nie. Ons moet die wet gehoorsaam wees, al gaan dit met benoudheid gepaard.
      God sal aan ons voorsien wat ons nodig het.

      Delete
  63. Die opdrag is gegee vanaf die Konverensie van Apostels dat alle lede op Sondag 31 Mei om 10:00 waar hulle ook al is, in gebed te gaan rakende die Covid-19 pandemie.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Fantasties, iemand moet die "opsiener" dalk daarvan laat weet "LAAT DIE VOLK SAAMSTAAN" & "dat die VIRUS moet verdwyn"

      Delete
    2. Die Opsiener het binne sy bevoegdheid opgetree. Die opdrag van die KvA het natuurlik die Opsiener se opdrag gewysig.
      Dit is nie n tweestrydigheid binne die Kerk nie.

      Delete
    3. O nee Melt, glad nie.
      Die President se toespraak was op die 26ste Mei waarin hy die 31ste Mei as Nasionale Bid Dag verklaar.
      Op die 27ste Mei vra die “Opsiener” vir “gebed tydens ons Familie-aand op Woensdag 3 Junie om 18:00”.
      Op die 29ste Mei stuur MJ Van Tonder ‘n Omsendbrief aan Apostels van die KvA: Dag van gebed op Sondag, 31 Mei 2020.
      Smaak my daar was bietjie verwarring en die KvA was bietjie traag om te reaggeer op die President se versoek.

      Delete
    4. 1Ek dink die misverstand is San jou Kant. Neem in ag dat die KoA uit ongeveer 34 Apostels bestaan wat 24 tydsones dek. Die eerste aksie om n dringende vergadering te bele kon eers gemaak word op 27 Mei na ongeveer 9:00. Daar is n protokol wat gevolg word volgens die Grondwet van die Kerk met n verspreiding van n notule wat beteken dat die voorsitter en sekretaris van die KvA moes goedkeur vir verspreiding. n Vergadering moet op n geskikte Tue plaasvind.
      Selfs n Round Robin Resolution neem tyd en moet n behoorlik opgeteken word. Die Audi Alteram Partem reel moet ook in ag geneem word waar elke Apostel sy Kant of mening van die saak kan gee.
      Maw, n vergadering kon eers Dan die vroegste gehou word op 28 Mei dmv telekonverensie.
      Daarna moet die besluit oorgedra word aan alle VVA's en Oudstes.
      Neem in ag dat daar lede en ampte in die Kerk is wat nie internet toegang het nie en ook op ander wyse in kennis gesteel word.
      Die opname wat jy op die 29ste ontvang het vanaf Apostel Van Tonder was ook heel moontlik vroeer versprei. Whatsapp beperk uitsendings tot 5 persone op n slag.
      Jy is glad nie lid van die Kerk nie dn het dit moontlik buite die verspreiding netwerk ontvang. Maw jy was die laaste on te weet. Ook was Apostel Van Tonder we boodskap slegs vir die lede in sy verantwoordelikheid en nie n Kerkwye uitsending nie.
      Daar was nie verwarring nie, en ook glad geen traagheid van die KvA at nie. Dit is it wat met elke woordjie probeer on in daai.

      Delete
    5. Hoe kan jy wat nie eers lid van die OAK is nie meer weet as ek oor die OAK. Ek spandeer my lewe in n studie van die OAK. As gevolg van n toestand wat ek het is ek n wandelende ensiklopedie van die OAK.

      Delete
    6. Ek glo nie daar is veel van ‘n misverstand aan my kant nie. Baie dankie vir u verduideliking in elk geval, ek waardeer u moeite. Ek stem egter nie 100% saam met u stelling “...die KoA uit ongeveer 34 Apostels bestaan wat 24 tydsones dek...” nie:
      69% van die OAK se aktiewe “apostels” is in Suid Afrika gebaseer (1 tydsone)
      24% van die OAK se aktiewe “apostels” is in die res van Afrika gebaseer (6 tydsones) L.W. die OAK se “apostels” is nie so ver uitmekaar versprei oor daai tydsones nie.
      7% van die OAK se aktiewe “apostels” is in Europa gebaseer (2 tydsones) L.W. 1 tydsone word met Afrika gedeel.
      Dus 7 tydsones op die meeste.
      Die Staats President het egter spesifiek gepraat oor Suid Afrika – net 1 tydsone.
      Ek stem ook nie met u redenasie saam ”… jy was die laaste on te weet…” nie. As u werklik op hoogte van sake was sou u geweet het presies wanneer die opname uitgestuur was. Die datum op die omsendbrief is 29 Mei 2020, gaan kyk self ”…Date: 29 May 2020…”. Dit was ook dringend op dieselfde dag, Vrydag 29 Mei 2020, versprei via WhatsApp, vonkpos en Facebook.

      Delete
    7. Rakende u stelling:
      "...Ook was Apostel Van Tonder we boodskap slegs vir die lede in sy verantwoordelikheid en nie n Kerkwye uitsending nie...";

      In die omsendbrief se eie woorde:
      Date: 29 May 2020
      Circular to Apostles of the COA: Day of prayer on Sunday, 31 May 2020

      Probeer u nou vir my te oortuig dat MJ van Tonder 'n "...COA..." in sy eie verantwoordelikheid het?

      Delete
    8. LOL Melt, die Staats President verkondig dat Sondag ‘n Nasionale Bid Dag was, dan moes daar eers ‘n burokratiese rompslomp binne die OAK plaasvind om te besluit of hulle die Staats President gaan gehoorsaam of nie? Wat ‘n grap!

      Delete


    9. Melt Olckers,
      Ek sien iewers is daar n skroef los. Jy se jy is n " wandelende ensiklopedie van die oak."
      Dit beteken in gewone taal "jy is ge brainwash". Dit is al. Enige ensiklopedie is deur iemand geskryf.
      jou overgestelde beskryf jou. Nou om in so toestand soos waarin jy sit, die waarheid te kan sien is
      ontmoontlik vir ons, maar nie vir God nie. So ek stel voor dat jy moet begin ernstig bid. Ja bid
      tot die God van van Abraham Isaak en Jakob. Dit Is dieselfde God wat die Hemel en Aarde waarop ons loop, en waarin ons bly geskape het.
      Dit is Die Een wat Jesus gestuur het om vir ons sondes te sterf. Dit is die Een wat Jesus opgewek het uit die graf. Dit is die Een aan
      wie se regterhand Jesus sit. En vra hom om jou te verlos uit die greep van die oac, en bid dit deur Jesus Christus. Jesus van Nazaret.
      dit is al raad wat ek jou kan gee.

      Delete
    10. Ek het n toestand bekend as Outisme, ook bekend as Asperger Sindroom. Dit het n onderligende toestand bekend as Synhestesia was run so feite met presiesheid kan onthou en patrone in feite kan raaksien. K het n intense belangstelling in die OAK veral die geskiedenis. Ek kan ok nie gebreinspoel word nie. Dit is onmoontlik on n outistiese persoon te breinspoel.
      Ook bygenoem, ek is een van die voorste leiers in die Outisme gemeenskap in SA.
      Ek het verbal Pinkster kerke ook ondersoek en agtergekom dat hulle Baie betrokke is by sameswerings teoriee, en selfs mishandeling van outistiese kinders deur duiweluitdrywery.

      Ook stem dit wat die OAK verkondig ooreen met top teologoie kenners in SA en oor die wereld, soos Willie Esterhuyze, Sakkie Spangenberg, Jan du Rand, Willem Dr Klerk, Bart D. Ehrman, Karen Armstrong, Elaine Pagels, Israel Finkelstein en Richard Carrier.

      Delete
    11. Melt, My kleinkinders n tweeling het dieselfde Sindroom. Maar hulle is nie ou apostels nie, ek dank die Vader daarvoor. Jy het vergeet om een naam in te voeg. Die een wat ook saam met julle stem, ons roep hom "lucifer"

      Delete
    12. Melt, rakende u stelling:
      “…Ook stem dit wat die OAK verkondig ooreen met top teologoie kenners…”;

      Ek ken nie een van daai name nie, en ek het gaan soek en nie een van daai name is op die lysie van “top teologoie kenners” nie. Ek is ook nie verbaas nie aangesien OAK lede ook dink hul “apostels” is die beste “teologoie kenners” ooit. Kan u vir my verwysings stuur waar hierdie “top teologoie kenners” van u met julle “apostels” saam stem dat Jesus Christus die OAK is?

      Ek dink toe u “top teologoie kenners” geskryf het, was dit ‘n fout, u het seker bedoel “top ateiste wat nie die Bybel ken nie”.
      Spangenberg vs Craig: DIE GROOT DEBAT

      Terloops, het u geweet dat ‘n stukkende horlosie ook twee keer per dag met ‘n werkende horlosie saamstem?

      Delete
    13. Melt, rakende u stelling:
      “…ek is een van die voorste leiers in die Outisme gemeenskap in SA…”;
      Baie mooi Melt, welgedaan, ek sien u is op die National Executive Committee as ‘n “Autism Self-Advocate”. Pragtig Melt, ek is baie trots op u. Stuur groete vir die Autism South Africa span, ek dink hulle doen wonderlike werk.

      Rakende u stelling:
      “…Ek kan ok nie gebreinspoel word nie. Dit is onmoontlik on n outistiese persoon te breinspoel…”;
      Melt, u het mos grootgeword in die OAK, nie waar nie?
      People with ASD risk being manipulated because they can't tell when they're being lied to

      Delete
    14. Die stelling wat jy maak is foutief. Dit is met verwysing na Dr. Tony Attwood in sy boek The Complete Guide to Asperger Syndrome waarin hy skryf " Adults with Asperger's Syndrome can be renowned for a strong sense of social justice and keeping to the rules. They strongly believe in in moral and ethical principles."
      Dr Attwood wys ook daarop dat die verstaan van desepsie ontwikkel in die tienerjare, en dat dit gewoonlik 'n geneigdheid het om te ontwikkel in rebellie wat nie normaal is in vergelyking met normale tiener rebellie nie.
      Die meeste persone met Asperger Sindroom verlaat die geloof van hulle ouers en word atheiste, Budhiste, Wiccans of selfs La Veyan Sataniste. Dit is as gevolg van die onetiese gedrag binne tradisionele Christelike Kerke.
      Dr Attwood is die voorste kenner op Asperger Sindroom.

      Delete
    15. Die Breinspoel gedagte was vir die eerste keer beskryf deur Margeret Singer in The Process of Brainwashing, Psychological Coercion, and Thought Reform maar die American Psychological Association het haar navorsing verwerp en dit word nie erken as 'n wetenskaplike teorie nie.
      Die Breinspoelings teorie is verkeerd bewys. 'n Interesante artikel wat wel aanvaar was deur die ADA is James T. Richardson se A Critique of "Brainwashing" Claims about New Religious Movements.

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    16. My vraag aan jou is watter doop is die regte of ware doop? Is dit die groot doop of die kinder doop? Die Kerk van Christus is mos een kerk in eenheid.

      Delete
    17. Vir interesantheid wil ek net daarop wys dat Kobus Jonker die "Christelike" Polisie Offisier wat tokolosies en duiwels jag se kenmerke van 'n Satanis stem ooreen met die DSMIV-TR se diagnostiese kriteria van Asperger Sindroom. Dit het onder andere gely dat baie Asperger Persone as duiwels besete gebrandmerk was en selfs probeer is om duiwels uit hulle uit te dryf.

      Delete
    18. Nog 'n interesante feit is dat fluitjie blasers soos Chelsey Manning ASD het. Ook die stigter van Wikileaks, Jullian Assange. Die persoon wat die Nazi Enigma kode gekraak het en die eerste rekenaar ontwerp het, Alan Turin het ASD gehad. Ook Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, Mozart, Hans Christian Anderson, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, Steven Spielberg, Tom Hanks, Anthony Hopkins, ens.

      Delete
    19. Dankie Melt vir al daai interessante brokkies oor outisme. As u verder oor outisme wil gesels, daar is baie ander gemeenskappe waar u lekker saam kan gesels:
      Evangelizing Mr. Spock: Asperger's Syndrome in the Church
      Asperger Syndrome and Religion: Reconciling Logic with Faith
      Asperger’s Disorder and Spiritual Development

      Die OAK se weergawe van die ware Jesus Christus het egter niks met outisme uit te waai nie. As OAK lidmaat glo u dat die OAK eintlik Jesus Christus is, u het mos ‘n “owergestelde” en die woorde uit sy mond is mos u “God”. Van kleins af is u dit geleer, u het immers grootgeword in die OAK, nie waar nie?

      Delete
    20. Nee Melt, wag nou. Vroeër het jy gespog dat jy “feite met presiesheid kan onthou en patrone in feite kan raaksien”?

      Nou kom jy met ‘n sogenaamde “interesante feit” soos dat “Chelsey Manning ASD het. Ook die stigter van Wikileaks, Jullian Assange” & “Alan Turin het ASD gehad. Ook Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, Mozart, Hans Christian Anderson, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, Steven Spielberg, Tom Hanks, Anthony Hopkins, ens.”

      Uhm..nee, aikôna Melt, daai is nie feite nie!

      Daar word BESPIEGEL dat hulle MOONTLIK Asperger-sindroom kon gehad het, m.a.w. dis nie klinklare bewyse of feite nie! Asperger-sindroom is eers in 1944 deur Hans Asperger vir die eerste keer erken. Die enigste naam in jou lysie wat vir ‘n feit met ASD gediagnoseer was, is Anthony Hopkins!

      Daar word algemeen BESPIEGEL dat Bill Gates baie persoonlikheidseienskappe TOON wat kenmerkend is van 'n toestand bekend as Asperger-sindroom. Maar dit beteken nie noodwendig dat hy dit wel onder lede het nie. ‘n Forensiese psigiater van die Vloot wat Chelsea Manning gesien het, het gesê Chelsea Manning het narsistiese eienskappe en TOON tekens van beide fetale alkoholsindroom en Asperger-sindroom. Niemand anders op jou lysie nie ou pel, jy gryp na strooitjies om 'n saak te probeer bewys wat geen verband hou met die OAK se dwaalleer nie.

      Om polities korrek te wees, word die term “brainwashing” verwerp en daar word eerder verwys na “sosiaal-sielkundige tegnieke”, maar in plein boere taal bly dit maar eintlik breinspoeling. Gee dit maar ‘n ander naam as jy wil maar die resultate spreek vanself. In ‘n kultus is daar altyd die een of ander stryd en korrupsie van mag wat ontwikkel en dinge skeef loop, kyk maar wat het gebeur met die Rajneesh-groep in Oregon, die massamoord en selfmoord van Jim Jones se Peoples Temple in die oerwoud van Guyana, David Koresh se Branch Davidians ens. Of daar mense onder hul leierskap met ASD gediagnoseer was of nie, hulle het ALMAL saam agter hulle leiers aangeloop, ASD ofte nie!

      Feite Melt, feite.

      Delete
    21. My sogenaamde strooihalms is twee boeke wat deur die Outisme gemeenskap erken word as backburner boeke, onder andere deur INSAR en Autism Speaks.
      Attwood, T. The Complete Guide to Asperger Syndrome. JKP. 2015.
      Silberman, S. Neirotribes, the legacy of Autism and how to think smarter about people who think differently. A&U. 2015
      Daar is in die outisme gemeenskap met twee tipe person e ten opsigte van bogenoemde boeke. 1. Die wat dit gelees het en 2. Die wat dit wil lees.

      Dit is feite, geboekstaaf .

      Delete
    22. Brainwashing is deur die ADA verwerp en word glad nie beskryf in DSMIV-TR, DSM5, of die ICD10 nie. Dit word maw nie erken deur sielkundiges of psigiaters nie en is slegs n teken van Sosiale Paniek.

      Delete
    23. Volgens Prof. Temple Grandin was die eerste spies ontwerp deur n Outistiese persoon terwyl die res van die grotbewoners on n vuur gesit het waar hulle besig was met social networking.

      Delete
    24. Dankie vir u opinies Melt, almal is geregtig op hul opinies :-)
      Dr. Temple Grandin on Autism

      Delete
    25. ROFL Melt jou grapjas LOL
      Het jy al ooit oorweeg om ‘n “standup comic” te word? Michael McCreary (AspieComic) en die Duplass boeties is net so snaaks, ek dink jy sal hulle geniet:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBVpgyIXllw
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POAbEUkIAMg
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M7R9KLh6sQ

      Delete
  64. Ons kan ook die hele gesprek omkeer en vir jou vra in watter Kerk is jy? Maar dit blyk dat jy skaam is om dit te noem omdat jy weet dat jy jouself dan vir alle kritiek blootstel. Wat is jou geloofsbelydenis? Glo jy aan God? Of dalk aan Satan? Wat steek jy weg? Wie is jy? Om te skuil agter 'n skuilnaam?
    Dan kan ek ook verwys na die teksgedeelte wat praat van Een Here, een geloof en een doop. Jou kerk is moontlik deel van 'n gemeenskap van gelowe wat nie eers oor basiese dinge soos doop en ras kan ooreenstem nie. Die NG Kerk wil nie eers hul besluite oor die vrou in die amp of homoseksualiteit op hul eie kerk afdwing nie uit vrees dat lede mag wegbreek, wat ook dreig om te gebeur. Selfs in die pinkster kerke is daar oneenheid. Oor dinge soos die evolusie, die duiwel en demonologie. Sommige pinkster leiers verkondig onwetenskaplike leringe soos dat geestes siektes duiwels besetenheid is, of dat Rock musiek mense na satanisme toe dryf. Onthou jy hoe die pinskter leiers gewaarsku het hoe Rosk musiek anti-apartheid bevorder wat kwansuis duiwels was.
    Waar val jy in? Wat is jou siening? Glo jy ook soos sommige die aarde is plat, of dat Noag se Ark nog op Ararat is? Of dat daar bewyse is van Eksodus in die Nyl rivier?
    Wie is jy?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dankie Melt dat u gevra het.
      “…in watter Kerk is jy?...”
      Ek glo nie dat u verstaan wat ‘n kerk is nie. Geen sigbare kerk of denominasie is die ware kerk nie, omdat die bruid van Christus nie 'n instelling is nie. Die ware kerk is 'n geestelike entiteit wat bestaan uit diegene wat uit genade deur die geloof in 'n noue verhouding met die Here Jesus Christus gebring is (Efesiërs 2:8-9). Die Bybel verwys na 'n sigbare en 'n onsigbare kerk/gemeente:
      Die sigbare gemeente is bloot byeenkomste van belydende gelowiges (Handelinge 16:1-5, Romeine 16:1-16, ens.). Die woord gemeente word nooit gebruik om 'n gebou of 'n organisasie te beskryf nie.
      Die onsigbare gemeente is 'n geestelike entiteit wat 'n noue gemeenskap met Christus het, so naby soos 'n bruid aan haar man (Efesiërs 5:25-32, Kolossense 1:18). Hierdie gemeente bestaan uit 'n ongenoemde, ongespesifiseerde groep individue wat Christus in gemeen het. Dit kan nie ingehok word, ommuur of gedefinieer word deur enigiets anders as die liefde vir Christus en toewyding aan Hom nie.
      As u 'n gemeente kies om by te woon, is dit belangrik om te onthou dat 'n vergadering van gelowiges 'n plek moet wees waar diegene wat aan die geestelike entiteit (onsigbare gemeente) behoort, tuis voel. Dit is hier waar die Woord van God gehandhaaf, geëer en getrou verkondig word. 'n Plek waar die evangelie standvastig verkondig word, wat die skape voed en versorg. “Kerke” wat ‘n dwaalleer verkondig of sondes beoefen, sal heeltemal leeg wees van mense wat tot die geestelike entiteit (onsigbare gemeente) behoort, omdat Sy skape die stem van hul Herder ken en Hom sal volg (Johannes 10:1-21)

      “…Wat is jou geloofsbelydenis? Glo jy aan God? Of dalk aan Satan? Wat steek jy weg?...”
      Ek sou gedink het dis baie duidelik as u hierdie blog deurgelees het. Hieronder is ‘n paar leidrade:
      The REAL Jesus
      Jesus is the ONLY Messiah

      ”…Wie is jy?…”
      Ons is meer as net een mens, ons is slegte sondaars wat gered is deur genade en nie deur werke nie, en wat kinders van God is.
      Efesiërs 2: 8-10
      Want uit genade is julle gered, deur die geloof, en dit nie uit julleself nie:
      dit is die gawe van God;
      nie uit die werke nie, sodat niemand mag roem nie. Want ons is sy maaksel, geskape in Christus Jesus tot goeie werke wat God voorberei het, sodat ons daarin kan wandel.

      ”…Om te skuil agter 'n skuilnaam?...”
      Snaaks dat u dit noem aangesien u self voorheen onder ‘n skuilnaam ‘n blog geskep het oor die OAK en onder dieselfde skuilnaam op Wikipedia geskryf het oor die OAK.

      Delete
    2. Onthou net dat hierdie onsigbare Kerk nie in Eenheid is nie en teen homself verdeeld is. Die grootte voorbeeld daarvan is die droop.

      Delete
    3. Net omdat mense nie 100% met mekaar oor ‘n onderwerp saamstem nie beteken nie dat die onsigbare kerk teen homself verdeeld is nie. Daar is heeltemal te veel ander dinge waaroor die mense in die onsigbare kerk met mekaar saamstem, byvoorbeeld hulle liefde vir die ware Christus en toewyding aan Hom nie. Sy skape ken die stem van hul Herder en volg Hom (Johannes 10:1-21).

      Delete
  65. 12 July 2020
    (II) Confession of Faith: Immanuel: Being the Son of God, Jesus Christ possesses the same power and authority of God. [MAT 28:18] God is still with us, even today; the Church is the Body of Jesus Christ and therefore we continue to have Christ and God, the Father with us.[1 COR 12:12-27; 1 JOH 4:1-3] The Church, as the Body of Christ, is the Mediator between God and man today. [1 TIM 2:5; JOH 14:6]

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    Replies
    1. “…The Church, as the Body of Christ, is the Mediator between God and man today…”?

      How can you be so blind? Or are you illiterate? You place the verses between brackets but have you actually read those verses?

      1 Timothy 2:5-6 (KJV)
      For there is one God,
      and one mediator (singular)
      between God
      and men (plural),
      the man (singular)
      Christ Jesus;
      Who gave himself (singular)
      a ransom for all (plural),
      to be testified in due time.

      John 14:6 (KJV)
      Jesus saith unto him, (singular, Jesus of Nazareth)
      I am (singular, NOT “we”/“you are”/” OAC” etc)
      the way,
      the truth,
      and the life:
      no man cometh unto the Father,
      but by me. (singular, NOT “us”/” OAC” etc)

      Delete