"Heavens"
for dead people
OAC member
#1 wrote: “...like it or not The OAC has the
formular on how to enter the Heavens and they always have...”
OAC member
#2 wrote: “...see souls entering the gates of
heaven in the sealing service. Also like 5 or 6 ppl writes doen what they see
and it is exactly the same souls or spirits they see...”
OAC member #3 wrote: “...enjoy ur sealing lion and be there by spirit so that ur forefathers can enter the kingdom of heaven through u...”
OAC member #3 wrote: “...enjoy ur sealing lion and be there by spirit so that ur forefathers can enter the kingdom of heaven through u...”
The
word of the one (officer) above you is God…
Because
everyone is Jesus they are all in Heaven…
Not
the same heaven though; there are 7 Heavens. One for sisters; one for Brothers;
one for Underdeacons; one for Priests; one for Elders; one for the fourfold
ministry; and the Apostles and children share the same Heaven…
You
HAD to be there at the church every night, around 19:00-20:00, otherwise you
won't get salvation. That was applicable to South Africans; the OAC members in
the rest of the world had to be in church on Sundays only for salvation…”
Former OAC
member #1 wrote: “…The eye-opening thing for me was
when I recalled how they baptised people by making a cross between your
eyebrows, saying they're opening your 'spiritual eye'. We already have two
natural eyes, so that would surely be our 'third eye'? In the occult, the third
eye is the all-seeing eye of Satan…
'Sealing
services' (versegelingsdienste) are held in the OAC at least once a year. This
is when the apostle comes and 'seals' those who have been baptised in the OAC.
At these 'sealing services', a 'fourfold officer' and his wife are baptised and
'sealed' on behalf of those souls who had come to the OAC faith after having
'passed out of the flesh', and now had no bodies of their own. (The Bible
clearly teaches that the dead know nothing, and that everybody rests in their
graves until Jesus comes to fetch His people. When we die, we don't go from
having a body, to being a 'body-less' being, wandering around heaven and earth.)
We were taught that the apostle has the key to heaven. At a certain time during
these 'sealing services', the apostle would unlock the door of heaven so those
who had died in the faith since the last 'sealing service', could enter into
heaven. At these 'sealing services' many members who had been 'gifted' to see
'die doderyk' (kingdom of the dead) by asking their 'owergestelde' for this
'gift', or receiving this 'gift' when their 'spiritual eye' was opened at their
baptism, would say they saw so-and-so (happy and dressed in white if they were
fortunate to be going through the 'door' when the apostle unlocked the door of
heaven, or sad if they didn't make it, having known the 'truth', but not being
'op hulle plek')…
When
someone died, the priest (or higher officer, depending on which 'heaven' the
person who had 'gone out of the flesh' had been in) would say at the graveside,
as the coffin was being lowered into the grave, "Go into the rest of the
(f)ather you served." ("Gaan in, in die rus in van die vader wat JY
gedien het.") According to their teaching, if your 'heaven' while you were
alive, was to go partying, when you 'went out of the flesh' you would go to
that 'heaven' as that was where the father you served was. It would be hell for
you because you wouldn't have a body anymore to be able to dance. If your
heaven was drinking, it would be hell for you not to have a body and be able to
pick up a drink and swallow it. That would be the permanent state of those who
had not been 'op hulle plek'. (You could have been 'op jou plek', attending all
the activities, paying your tithe and 'facing east', but that one time you
perhaps decided to go somewhere else, like a movie, which was 'into the world',
and you died in an accident, you could lose your salvation, having 'backslided'
at the time of your death!)…”
Former OAC
member #2 wrote: “...I was "baptized" in
the Old Apostolic church…
During
this procedure, they open your spiritual eye so that you can
see/feel/communicate with spirits…
Once
a year the Apostolics "open the gates of heaven for the lost souls"
that are on earth for 15 minutes…
They
believe in communication with the dead…
Believe
in no heaven up there but only around us…
after
you die, you get a second chance. Spirits can "convert" other spirits
to God's will...”
Former OAC
member #3 wrote: “…The OACSA has a philosophy others can only wish for.
There is no heaven and God dwells in the heads of mankind. Mortal human beings
can gain the power to lock or unlock the portals of heaven when empowered to do
so by the high officials of the church…”
Former OAC
member #4 wrote: “…If the person died before he
ever met an Old Apostolic he will have an opportunity to be saved if his soul
makes its way to a sealing service and he makes use of the opportunity that the
Apostle makes for souls to enter the Kingdom when he opens the gate at the
Sealing Service as I described before. Evidently it is very dark on the “other
side” and the Sealing Service is this huge light that attracts lost souls like
moths to a flame to coin a phrase. But God will decide who is actually admitted
so the Sealing Service is only an opportunity. Any soul that turned their back
on the one true God will be rejected. Devil Worshippers and atheists etc do not
count as people who rejected God as they did not really reject God if they did
not turn their back on the OAC…
The
OAC believes that when a person dies his soul stays near his body until the
funeral. At the funeral the presiding officer will say words to the effect of
“Go into the rest, faithful soul” although God will decide if the soul actually
goes into the rest or not…”
A non-OAC
member wrote: “…Wat vreemd van hulle is is hoe
hulle geeste oproep wat getuig in die kerk - my een oom wat 'n ou apostel is
het ernstig vertel hoe Hitler glo in 'n diens deur iemand gepraat het en vertel
het hoe hy die "lig" gesien het in die Ou Apostel Kerk…”
For those of
you who don’t understand Afrikaans, this person is saying that “...What makes
them peculiar is how they call up spirits to testify in the church - my one
uncle who is an old apostle earnestly tells how Hitler apparently spoke in a
service through someone and told how he had seen the "light" in the
Old Apostle Church...”
 |
| Necromancy - art of predicting by means of communicating with the dead; witchcraft |
When you ask
for the passages of Scripture defending these statements, OAC members will
either change the subject or give a vague answer along the following lines: “…So now, what is the fate of those who never received the
gospel of Jesus Christ, the Gospel of peace, or do you not believe in a
compasionate God? Is God not perfectly loving and just? Does God not desire
that all His children is to be saved? What happens to the billions that have
never had the chance to be saved? …”
This topic
is usually avoided during discussions with non-OAC members because it is a
controversial topic and considered to be “heavy meat” for new prospects. New
prospects first need to be fed “milk” before they’re strong enough
(sufficiently indoctrinated) to eat “meat”. This is commonly referred to as the
“bait-and-switch” tactic so typical of cults.
- The complex parts of the religion are deliberately hidden
- The complex parts of the religion are the most objectionable
Would someone
enter a trap if they knew in advance that it is a trap?
THE OLD APOSTOLIC CHURCH OF AFRICA CONFESSION OF FAITH
“WE BELIEVE”
“…in the administering, through the living for the dead, of
the three holy sacraments unto the souls in the realm of the dead…”
When I was
first given the above CONFESSION
OF FAITH, I was instructed to keep it to
myself and not to share it with anyone “in the world” because they wouldn’t
understand. Compare this approach and confession to what’s written in the
Bible:
John 3:16-21 For
God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever
believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not
his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him
might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that
believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of
the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come
into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds
were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the
light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the
light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
OAC members
believe their interaction with “spirits” proves that the OAC is the right
church. For a Christian the only standard of truth is Scripture (2 Timothy
3:16-17), and Scripture has clear warnings about “familiar spirits”
(Leviticus
19:31, Leviticus 20:6, Deuteronomy 18:10-12, 1 Samuel
28:3-14, 2 Kings 21:6, Isaiah 8:19-20). In every instance in Scripture where "familiar spirits" are mentioned, it is accompanied by the word "wizards" in the same sentence.
According to
Strong’s, the word “wizard” is translated from the Hebrew word yidde‛ônı̂y and is defined as:
properly a knowing one; specifically
a conjurer; (by implication) a ghost: - wizard.
The Bible
clearly tells us that demon possession is also possible. Devils (daimonizomai in Greek - to be exercised
by a daemon) or spirits of divination can also speak through people (Matthew 8:28-32,
Mark 1:23-26,
Mark 9:17-27,
Luke 4:33-35,
Acts
16:16-18).
The Bible
makes it quite clear that it is sin to try and contact the dead and God condemns
it.
If interaction with the dead is proof that the OAC is the right church, then it’s right for all the wrong reasons.
If interaction with the dead is proof that the OAC is the right church, then it’s right for all the wrong reasons.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For
such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the
apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an
angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be
transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to
their works.
Do not
believe every spirit (1 John 4:1-3), angels from God usually take on
the form of man to bring messages to God’s people (Luke 1:11-38, Luke 2:9-14).
God’s angels are ministering spirits (Hebrews 1:13-14) and don’t appear as familiar
spirits, but as strangers (Hebrews 13:2).
The Bible
teaches that there are no opportunities for salvation after death. Any doctrine
that teaches otherwise is both false and dangerous.
Hebrews 9:24-28 For
Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the
figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of
God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest
entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he
often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end
of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And
as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ
was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him
shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Catechism of the Old Apostolic Church of Africa…Part 2;
Question 2 (pages 47-48):
“Where is the
Kingdom of Heaven?”
“Ans. Within those to whom the Kingdom is given.
Firstly unto the Apostles in whom the Father had the good
pleasure of giving the kingdom (refer Luke 12 v. 32) and for whom Christ prayed
exclusively (refer John 17 v. 9). Secondly unto them which shall believe in
Christ through the words of the Apostles (refer John 17 v. 20)”
The verse
quoted in the OAC catechism in defence of this statement is as follows:
Luke 12:32 Fear
not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the
kingdom.
When reading
the verses quoted in the OAC catechism in defence of this statement, we see how
the OAC tries to change the context of these verses. Jesus was talking to his
disciples of which He had many, not just the twelve apostles (Luke 12:1,
Luke 12:22).
Jesus was telling them to have no fear or be anxious (Luke 12:4-7, Luke 12:22-34),
one’s life doesn’t consist of worldly riches (Luke 12:13-21). Jesus prayed for
eternal life to be given to as many as God had given him (John 17:2), the men given to Him
out of the world (John 17:6) and also for them which shall
believe on Him (John
17:20). Nowhere does Jesus say that heaven is in a person and that
these gates will be opened once a year for spirits to enter. People that were
full of spirits were actually filled with demons and Jesus cast them out! The kingdom of God is righteousness,
peace and joy in the Holy Ghost (Romans 14:17). You can also read how the OAC
interprets the Kingdom
of God “spiritually”.
Catechism of the Old Apostolic Church of Africa…Part 2;
Question 17 (page 56):
“What is Heaven?”
“Ans. : It is a condition of rest unto the soul,
blessedness and peace that we will taste if we submit ourselves in the house of
the Father and become small as little children. Such a child is an angel in
heaven and beholds the face of the Father which is in heaven every day. (Refer
Matt. 18 v. 10.)”
The verse
quoted in the OAC catechism in defence of this statement is as follows:
Matthew 18:10 Take
heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in
heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
Notice that the verse is talking about the
angels of the little ones and not the little ones as angels. There’s also no mention
of what Heaven is. It’s ironic that the OAC
catechism would say that OAC heaven is a condition of rest unto the soul with
blessedness and peace. From the statements at the beginning of this post this
is clearly a lie. OAC members with the “gift” of seeing ghosts never get any
rest because these “spirits” are continuously bugging them because they have
the so-called “light”. It was explained to me once by my “priest” that the
“world” is dark and when you shine a light at night, all the insects and bugs
come to swarm around the light. Similarly this “gift” is supposedly a “light”.
It is not unusual to hear of “gifted” members being molested or smothered by
some “seeking soul” (read demon). These members are so revered because it is
deemed to be special to have such a “gift”.
- The soul (nephesh in Hebrew) that sins will die (Ezekiel 18:20)
- Our bodies will return to dust (Genesis 3:19)
- Our spirit (rûach in Hebrew, pneuma in Greek – breath of life or life force) returns to God (Ecclesiastes 8:8, Ecclesiastes 12:7, Luke 23:46, Acts 7:59)
- The dead know nothing and have no reward (Psalms 146:4, Ecclesiastes 9:5, Isaiah 26:14, Luke 16:19-31)
- The Bible describes death as being asleep or buried (Job 7:21, 1 Kings 2:10, Daniel 12:2, Acts 2:29, 1 Thessalonians 4:13)
There were
pagan religions where baptism for the dead was practiced. Just north of Corinth
there was a city named Eleusis, the location of a pagan religion known as the
Eleusinian Mysteries. They held initiations every year for the cult of Demeter
and Persephone. It was a major festival during the Hellenic era and later spread
to Rome. The ceremonies and beliefs were kept secret and the initiated believed
they would be rewarded in the afterlife. It is believed that the Eleusinian
Mysteries are derived from the Mycenaean period which predates the Greek Dark
Ages. Modern scholars believe the Eleusinian Mysteries intended “to elevate man
above the human sphere into the divine and to assure his redemption by making
him a god and so conferring immortality upon him”. During an all night feast of
dancing and merriment known as Pannychis, a bull would be sacrificed and
initiates would honour the dead by pouring a drink-offering from special
vessels. The Corinthians were known to be heavily influenced by other customs
and religious practices and this is also what Paul had to contend with.
False
teachers had influenced the church at Corinth and taught that there was no
resurrection of the dead.
Paul refutes
these false teachings. There were eye witness accounts of Christ’s
resurrection:
1 Corinthians 15:5-7 And
that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of
above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this
present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of
all the apostles.
If there is
no resurrection then:
- Christ has not risen (1 Corinthians 15:13, 1 Corinthians 15:16)
- Paul was preaching in vain and their faith was in vain (1 Corinthians 15:14)
- Paul and the other apostles were false witnesses (1 Corinthians 15:15)
- We are still in our sins (1 Corinthians 15:17)
- All who have fallen asleep (died) in Christ have perished (1 Corinthians 15:18)
To counter
these false cultist leaders, Paul stated that the heart of the gospel was
Christ’s resurrection after dying on the cross for our sins. Christ's historical
death, burial and resurrection IS
the gospel.
Paul explains
that Christ has been raised, He is the firstfruits of all that will be raised
and that all enemies including death have been subjected and conquered by
Christ (1
Corinthians 15:20-28).
Then Paul
points out an inconsistency in the practice of these false teachers, if they did not believe the dead would
rise, why did they baptize them
after death? It was a contradiction. People who deny the resurrection for the
dead ought not to get baptized for the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what
shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at
all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
You’ll
notice that Paul is referring to “they”,
not “us” or “we”. From the context of the whole chapter it is clear that Paul
does not condone baptizing a living person on behalf of someone else who is
dead already. Baptism pictures being buried with Christ, we are buried with
Christ so that we can be raised to life with Him.
Romans 6:4 Therefore
we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up
from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in
newness of life.
Colossians 2:12 Buried
with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of
the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
In the
second century (AD 135 to as late as AD 177) there was a sect in Phrygia under
the leadership of “prophet” Montanus and two female “prophets”, Prisca and
Maximillia. They had an immediate expectation of Judgement Day and their
entranced utterances were deemed oracles of the Holy Spirit. According to Epiphanius
in “Against Heresies”, the Phrygians were seen as false prophets because they
acted irrationally and were not in control of their senses. This Phrygian sect seems
to have developed the practice of baptizing actual corpses based on their
interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15:29.
Baptism for
the dead has been practiced by the Mormons ever since 1840. Their “prophet”
Joseph Smith first taught this doctrine at a funeral sermon of a deceased
member of their church. The sermon was based on 1 Corinthians 15:29. He wrote
about it in a letter dated October 19th, 1840 to the “Quorum of the
Twelve Apostles” (governing body of the Mormons) who were on a mission in the
United Kingdom at the time.
 |
| Portrait of the Mormon "prophet" Joseph Smith |
Something
mentioned only once in Scripture cannot be given the same weight of importance
as the central themes of Scripture. Heterodoxy skirts around the central truths
while peripheral matters become life-and-death issues. When something is
mentioned only once, the likelihood of misinterpretation is high while matters
that are discussed repeatedly in various contexts will be clarified by
repetition.
You can also
read:
OAC Confession of Faith
The Biblical truth is, ONLY Jesus Christ has the authority to be a proxy regarding Salvation.
OAC Confession of Faith
The Biblical truth is, ONLY Jesus Christ has the authority to be a proxy regarding Salvation.
1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there
is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who
gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
2 Corinthians 5:1-10 For we
know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a
building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in
this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is
from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we
that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be
unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now
he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto
us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that,
whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by
faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent
from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that,
whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear
before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done
in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Hebrews 9:11-14 But
Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more
perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in
once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the
blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean,
sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of
Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,
purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
There is
only one REAL
Jesus and He is the ONLY
Messiah.
Hello! Regarding their response as you quoted (which, by the way, many people including Atheists often ask!)
ReplyDelete“…So now, what is the fate of those who never received the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Gospel of peace, or do you not believe in a compassionate God? Is God not perfectly loving and just? Does God not desire that all His children is to be saved? What happens to the billions that have never had the chance to be saved?
People have a skewed idea of love and compassion. Their mindset is:
* A person is a sinner - guilty of sin
* They die - the punishment for sin is Hell for eternity.
* But they were good people - surely God would just acknowledge their goodness and let them into Heaven?
They wrongfully assume that "good" people are good. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors or in their head. In e.g. Methodist churches, Mother Theresa is always used as THE example for "good" but they ignore that she was exorcised twice by the Catholics, and promoted family planning and abortion. As it is written, there is NONE who doeth good, no not one!
So they overlook that there has to be a balance of love and hate. If you love God, you would hate sin. God hates sin too - and sin HAS to be punished. Otherwise you get imperfect justice, and God is just.
For example, suppose someone commits murder. It goes to court, he's found guilty. And then the convicted murderer says "Yes I know I committed murder, but I went to church every week - tithed - gave to charity - etc". Should the judge declare him innocent and free to go? No, because no matter how good he is - he's guilty! Likewise, if you are guilty of sin, no amount of good deeds can take away the guilt of your sin.
And by the way, if the judge shows compassion to the guilty murderer, where is his compassion towards the murder victim, towards the relatives left behind, towards society?
If God did just turn a blind eye, then:
1- you could live a wicked lifestyle, but offset it by e.g. giving loads to charity.
2- if God turns a blind eye to sin, then that God is not perfect due to a lack of justice
3- if God turns a blind eye to "the billions" then where is the incentive to follow God?
4- if there are people who die before hearing the Gospel, but God lets them in anyway, where is the incentive for us to go around the world to try and reach people with the Gospel? (and the Gospel HAS travelled the world, even those remote places, but that's another story)
2 Corinthians 4:3-4: But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
This is why it's important to get people saved BEFORE they die. Once they're dead, they're either saved and in Heaven, or burning in Hell.
Hebrews 9:27: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
And the whole point of the Bible is, there is nothing we can do because we are guilty - hence we need a saviour, and that saviour is Jesus Christ!
God bless you and your work :-)
True, no one is righteous (Romans 3:9-20). Romans 1:16-32 explains that the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Jesus said “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”. This is the Great Commission. He didn’t say we must wait for people to die first in their billions and let them come like moths after our “light” for salvation. Without Jesus we are all doomed because we all have sinned, we are all guilty.
DeleteHello,
ReplyDeleteIf the oac use a 'fourfold officer' and his wife and they are baptised and 'sealed' on behalf of those souls, in what heaven will they be? Don't brothers go to a brother heaven. Now why fourfold officer. Don't you say the underdeacon is the door for the world. Now why should the same soul if he is alive, come through the underdeacon ,but if he died he must come through a fourfold office.!!
Another one of the contradictions of the oac's false doctrine. The Bible supposedly makes more sense by reading it as one big allegory, but they fail to see their own contradictions.
DeleteDagse geliefdes oz verseling 2de junie jinne x kannie wag vir die dag van pinkster fees nie x berei my voor ma jinne d geeste hulle maak d huis deemekaar al gebid dat hulle rustig verkeer hulle sien hille kry nie deerbraak by my nie nou begin hulle by d kinders om my siek temaak help my adblf met imsperering dnki geliefdes
ReplyDeleteTranslation:
Delete“Good day beloved our sealing 2nd June gosh i can't wait for the day of pentecost i am preparing myself but gosh d spirits are making d house chaotic already prayed that they calm down they see they not getting to me so now they start with d kids to make me sick help me plz with inspiration tku beloved”
English:
For starters, don’t be misled into believing that the “spirits” are actually “seeking souls” or “lost souls” that are restless about any upcoming “sealing service”. When we die there is no chance of communication with those who are still physically alive, it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment (Hebrews 9:27). It will either be eternal life with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8, Philippians 1:21-24) or eternal punishment (Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 16:19-31).
Regarding the “spirits” you say that are causing chaos in your house and using your children to make you sick, they sound remarkably similar to the Legion (Mark 5:1-20). Praying to your priest or your underdeacon won’t help, read what Jesus said to His disciples regarding the “spirits” and rather follow His advice (Matthew 17:14-21, Mark 9:14-29).
Afrikaans:
Om mee te begin, moenie mislei word deur te glo dat die "geeste" eintlik "soekende siele" of "verlore siele" is wat onrustig oor ‘n komende "verseëling diens" is nie. Wanneer ons sterf, is daar nie ‘n manier om met diegene wat nogsteeds fisies lewendig is te kommunikeer nie. Net soos die mense bestem is om een maal te sterwe en daarna die oordeel (Hebreërs 9:27). Dit sal óf die ewige lewe met die Here wees (2 Korintiërs 5:6-8, Filippense 1:21-24) of die ewige straf (Mattheus 25:31-46, Lukas 16:19-31).
Met betrekking tot die "geeste" wat jou huis deurmekaar maak en jou kinders gebruik om jou siek te maak, klink dit opmerklik soortgelyk aan Legio (Markus 5:1-20). Om te bid tot jou priester of jou onderdiaken sal nie help nie, lees gerus wat Jesus vir sy dissipels aangaande die "geeste" gesê het en volg eerder Sy raad (Mattheus 17:14-21, Markus 9:14-29).
Dear ex-OAC critic.Its very easy to hide behind a computer and crucify other churches. I so wish to have a platform for a proper dialog with you sir.
ReplyDeleteDitto
Delete“…Its very easy to hide behind a computer and crucify other churches…”
DeleteIs that why you’re writing as “Anonymous” and why you believe that all other churches are wrong and the OAC is the only way?
“…I so wish to have a platform for a proper dialog with you sir…”
So do I, unfortunately your apostolate has a “policy that does not allow the Church or its Officers to participate formally on social media” so go complain in the ear of your “owergestelde” about this policy. You are more than welcome to contact me privately; there is a contact form right at the top of this page on the right hand side beneath “About me”.
Coward
ReplyDeleteIs it directed at people making anonymous comments on this blog? Don’t be too harsh on them boet, many still have friends and family in the OAC and are unable to confront them directly for fear of hurting their feelings.
DeleteSo you're going to just assume that i belong to the OAC and that by proper platform i mean social media?
ReplyDeleteI'm talking about a seat down between you and i, bring your KJV bible and i will bring mine. You can publish the entire dialog afterwards should you wish to but i doubt you would
What’s wrong with social media? What’s the difference between quoting your Bible now to refute my post and me publishing a dialog afterwards? If you’ve never belonged to the OAC, why bother commenting on this blog?
DeleteIf social media makes you feel uncomfortable you can contact me directly. You can either use the contact form right at the top right hand side or you can email me at ExOldApostolic@gmail.com. If you are or were an OAC officer, you can also request to join our closed forum which is by invitation only and your identity will be protected.
Delete"Nowhere does Jesus say that heaven is in a person and that these gates will be opened once a year for spirits to enter."
ReplyDeleteSo whoever wrote this needs to rethink what he or she wrote ...
Kingdom and heaven are clearly the same place because God will be there.
Right, so Luke 17:21 reads ... "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luke 17:21 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/luk.17.21.KJV"
What is His Kingdom?
"For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Romans 14:17 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/rom.14.17.KJV"
So if the Kingdom of God is whithin man, surely God will also be within man.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/jhn.1.1.KJV"
So if a word was/is God, verse 14 tells us that this word is made flesh and dwells among us ...
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:14 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/jhn.1.14.KJV"
So if God is a word, what kind of word?
"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1 John 4:8 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/1jn.4.8.KJV"
"For our God is a consuming fire.
Hebrews 12:29 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/heb.12.29.KJV"
So i can keep going until forever ... So i've shown you my God ... Can you show me yours?
As for the part of the sealing service ... it's clear that the person who commented does not understand what it's all about. Just to give you a hint ... The Apostle unlock the door: he says he uses a key ... so the key is the "word" spoken, the door is you, the one that sits there ... meaning that you have a choice to either listen to what he says or not to better or improve your lifestyle.
"But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Jude 1:10 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/jud.1.10.KJV"
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/1co.2.14.KJV"
Regarding your comment:
Delete“…Kingdom and heaven are clearly the same place because God will be there…”;
Doctrine - Kingdom of God: http://oldapostolicchurchrevealed.blogspot.co.za/2016/08/doctrine-kingdom-of-god_6.html
Doctrine - 7th heaven http://oldapostolicchurchrevealed.blogspot.co.za/2017/05/doctrine-7th-heaven.html
Regarding your comment:
“…So if a word was/is God, verse 14 tells us that this word is made flesh and dwells among us…”;
There’s a huge difference between a mere word spoken by some mere mortal and the Word. Can you answer this question: Where was the Word before it took on flesh?
The REAL Jesus: http://oldapostolicchurchrevealed.blogspot.co.za/2016/08/the-real-jesus.html
Jesus is the ONLY Messiah: http://oldapostolicchurchrevealed.blogspot.co.za/2016/08/jesus-is-only-messiah.html
Doctrine - OAC’s version of Jesus http://oldapostolicchurchrevealed.blogspot.co.za/2017/06/doctrine-oacs-version-of-jesus.html
Regarding your comment:
“…As for the part of the sealing service ... it's clear that the person who commented does not understand what it's all about…”;
Doctrine - Sealing your fate: http://oldapostolicchurchrevealed.blogspot.co.za/2016/12/doctrine-sealing-your-fate.html
Regarding your last two verses quoted out of context:
Doctrine - Spiritual vs Natural: http://oldapostolicchurchrevealed.blogspot.co.za/2016/08/doctrine-spiritual-vs-natural.html
Doctrine - Bread breaking http://oldapostolicchurchrevealed.blogspot.co.za/2017/04/doctrine-bread-breaking.html
Doctrine - Imaginative testimony http://oldapostolicchurchrevealed.blogspot.co.za/2018/03/doctrine-imaginative-testimony.html
Regarding your comment:
Delete“…Kingdom and heaven are clearly the same place because God will be there…”;
The Kingdom of God
7th Heaven
Regarding your comment:
“…So if a word was/is God, verse 14 tells us that this word is made flesh and dwells among us…”;
There’s a huge difference between a mere word spoken by some mere mortal and the Word (James 3:1-12). Can you answer this question: Where was the Word before it took on flesh?
Jesus the son of man
Jesus the Son of God
The false apostle
Regarding your comment:
“…As for the part of the sealing service ... it's clear that the person who commented does not understand what it's all about…”;
Sealing your fate
Regarding your last two verses quoted out of context:
Spiritual vs Natural
A doctrine too vast to be set out in words
Bread breaking
Testimony
So many blatant lies, misunderstandinhs and incorrect info about the OAC. Even people that say they are "ex" members doesn't have the facts right. No wonder this upsets members of the OAC.
ReplyDeletePlease feel free to point out the inconsistencies as you see them point by point without making broad statements.
DeleteThe truth hurts sister Anna, that's why this upsets members of the OAC. You failed to point out a single blatant lie, a single misunderstandinh, or any other incorrect info. You failed to prove that the facts aren't right. Ex-OAC critic is pretty spot on and you guys just hate this information being freely available to non-OAC. That's the actual reason this upsets members of the OAC. Please just start reading your Bible.
DeleteIm an old apostolic till i die...i know my way to heaven ..sister anna lol we must smile and say god forgive them ..because YOU CANT TALK ABOUT SOMEONES HOME WHEN YOU NOT LIVING THERE ..
ReplyDeleteI am definitely not interested in your heaven or your god; you yourself can’t even respect them enough to spell them with capital letters. Your HOME can be spoken of if it’s the HELL HOLE we escaped from.
Delete@ Unknown #1:
DeleteRegarding your statement "...i know my way to heaven...";
I think you might enjoy reading the following:
Doctrine - Kingdom of God: http://oldapostolicchurchrevealed.blogspot.co.za/2016/08/doctrine-kingdom-of-god_6.html
Doctrine - 7th heaven http://oldapostolicchurchrevealed.blogspot.co.za/2017/05/doctrine-7th-heaven.html
Sistr anna lol dus so waar ek dink die persoon wat glo n ex member is nie n werklik n ex member nie ...moet nie die internet gebruik om ons geloof swak te maak nie en ongelukkig oortuig ons mens van aangesig tot aangesig ..PRAAT VAN ONS HUIS AS J DAAR IN WOON ANDERS NIE BLY STIL WANT JY MAK NET JOU LEWE MEER ONGESEEND...EK IS N TROTSTE APOSTOLIE IN HART EN SIEL ...
ReplyDeleteEk het glad nie nodig om u “geloof swak te maak nie”, ‘n boom word geken aan sy vrugte. Kyk gerus in die spieël, u kan nie die spieël blameer as u nie hou van wat u sien nie.
DeleteVra uself die volgende vragies, hoeveel van die mense wat “van aangesig tot aangesig” oortuig geword het is:
1) Kinders wat OAK lede is net omdat hul ouers aan die OAK behoort?
2} Mense wat nie ‘n Bybel het nie?
3} Mense wat ongeletterd is?
4} Mense wat nie hulle Bybel ken nie?
5} Mense wat trou met ‘n OAK lidmaat?
Buitendien, nou met die huidige virus situasie mag u nie “van aangesig tot aangesig” mense gaan oortuig nie, u moet by die huis bly. Selfs jul dienste vind deesdae plaas oor die internet, nie “van aangesig tot aangesig” nie. Al gehoor van Zoom en Skype?
Rakende u stelling:
“…PRAAT VAN ONS HUIS AS J DAAR IN WOON ANDERS NIE BLY STIL WANT JY MAK NET JOU LEWE MEER ONGESEEND…”;
Ek het daar gebly in u huis, dit was beslis nie hemels nie, dit was hel. Lees gerus van wat alles in u eie huis aangaan “TROTSTE APOSTOLIE IN HART EN SIEL”:
Rogue OAC Priests
Ek dink elke “TROTSTE APOSTOLIE IN HART EN SIEL” moet eerder die Bybel gaan lees:
Doctrine - Apostles today
Ag nee, lol sistr anna nou weer met getroude mans? Gaan huistoe sistr anna, los die priester uit, hy's klaar getroud!
DeleteX OAC jy soek d regte Antwoord .die Antwoord is ..Gaan terug jy was op d regte pad jy is en Bly ou apostolie dis hoekom d gees jou aankla
ReplyDeleteUnknown, u argument getuig van ‘n gebrek aan kennis en u ken duidelik nie die Woord van God nie. Die Antwoord is die Een ware Jesus Christus, Hy alleen is die regte pad, nie die OAK nie. Ek raai u sterk aan om u hele Bybel te gaan lees en ek bid dat die Heilige Gees u sal help om by die regte pad uit te kom.
DeleteUnknown, ek wil u en u OAK genote ook uitnooi en aanmoedig om saam op antWoord saam te kom gesels, dws as u “owergestelde” nie omgee dat u deelneem op sosiale media nie.
DeleteThe is no other church that knows the secret of the kingdom of God only OAC that my home
ReplyDeleteMark 4:21-25
DeleteAnd he said unto them,
Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick?
For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested;
neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
And he said unto them,
Take heed what ye hear:
with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you:
and unto you that hear shall more be given. For he that hath, to him shall be given:
and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.
The teachings of Christ are not a secret, since all heard them. Not all who heard Him understood His teachings, for those that were ill-disposed towards Him, the teachings of Christ were mysteries (Mark 4:11-12). The mystery of God is Jesus Christ.
Colossians 2:1-4
For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
OAC Doctrine - Kingdom of God
OAC Doctrine - 7th heaven
The OAC doesn’t know the secret of the kingdom of God, OAC members don’t even believe the Bible because the Bible to them is just a parable. Jesus said for those that aren’t in the kingdom of God, everything is done in parables - Mrk 4:11-12. It’s amazing that none of the OAC members who have commented so far have actually used biblical arguments to defend their unbiblical belief system! To those sincere OAC members who are seeking the truth, start reading the Bible! Try biblical hermeneutics to understand the text, anybody can do it, even a child!
DeleteThat’s because there are no biblical arguments to defend unbiblical belief systems
DeleteReading through all the comments from EX-OAC members are nogals funny. I have seen so many other versions of Christianity and Have yet to find one that is without flaw. There are even different views on how to practice the Islamic faith. I am not sure which OAC members you have been in touch with, but 1) the only world i am supposed to fight is my own fleshly and selfish desires. I do not judge those who are serving God in another manner. My children have been taught that they should NEVER judge other people and the way they serve God. They have also been given the freedom to explore other Christian churches outside of the OAC. I have never kept them from that as I want them to make objective and concise decisions when it comes to God. We do encourage bible reading day and night and when they have questions.But judging from the comments made so far, it makes me wonder then, IF THE OAC is so wrong, then the question what is the right christian faith? Should i become a Jehovah's witness? Or practice Judaism? Personally, as an OAC member, i will serve God the way i have come to understand, but I , my family and every person knows that we are not better than others and never will we ever esteem ourselves as better. We will serve God and be servants of God unto others. If you practice the fruits of the Spirit and serve Him in a way that adds value to others then I have no qualms against you.
ReplyDeleteI’m not surprised that you would find my comments “nogals funny”, you are known amongst family and friends as something of a joker :-)
DeleteThank you for sharing your personal opinions; however your opinions are not official policy and doctrine of the OAC. The OAC is exclusive and believe they are the only true church and the only way to salvation, everyone else is the “world” - a far cry from your liberal views and opinions. You pose an interesting question and I’m glad you asked. My profile picture should give you something of a hint:
“Never let the brand name on your shoes be more important than the ONE who’s guiding your footsteps”
No visible church or denomination is the true church because the bride of Christ is not an institution. The true church is a spiritual entity made up of those who have by grace through faith been brought into a close relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9). The Bible refers to a visible and an invisible church:
The visible churches are simply gatherings of professing believers (Acts 16:1-5, Romans 16:1-16, etc). The word church is never used to describe a building or an organization.
The invisible church is a spiritual entity that has close fellowship with Christ, as close as a bride to her husband (Ephesians 5:25-32, Colossians 1:18). This church is made up of an unnamed, unspecified group of individuals that have Christ in common. It cannot be contained, walled in or defined by anything other than its love for Christ and its dedication to Him.
When choosing a church to attend, it’s important to remember that a gathering of believers should be a place where those who belong to the spiritual entity (invisible church) feel at home. This will be where the Word of God is upheld, honored and preached faithfully. A place where the gospel is proclaimed steadfastly, that feeds and tends the sheep. “Churches” that teach heresy or engage in sin will be entirely bereft of people belonging to the spiritual entity (invisible church) because His sheep know the voice of their Shepherd and will follow Him (John 10:1-21).
I applaud you for giving your children “the freedom to explore other Christian churches” and allowing them ” to make objective and concise decisions”. I hope they feel welcome to read this blog too.
Do you know Jesus?
Amazing how the OAC believe that telling a female member dreaming she has sex with her own son is like making love to God ( THE APOSTLE MAYBE)? How this female is sending photos naked of her under age daughter to 3 different priests in the Helderberg area, how these same priests have sex with her? How same priests try to pray her husband dead, but stopped October as she first wanted to wait till December to get his bonus. I pit of SNAKES and SATAN worshippers I STATE
ReplyDeleteThose are serious allegations, I seriously recommend that you lay charges against those people and get case numbers so that they can be prosecuted.
DeleteSame son of that female so manipulated by said "priests" got away with several cases of crimes he committed, protected by this "priest" Saunders as he is a detective with the SAPS. lately he raped a female in Strand and got away again. Makes one think what type of children are bred in the OAC
ReplyDeletePlease go to the police and lay charges and get case numbers. Without a case number those people will escape justice.
Delete@Unknown
ReplyDeleteDo your duty and report those people!
Contact Social Work & Child Protection Services:
Tel (021) 461 7437 / (021) 461 7447 / (021) 461 1109
Email: headoffice@acvv.org.za
Children are the seeds that make the future blossom. Let them grow free of harm.
You can blow the whistle on corrupt members of the SAPS here:
Public Service Commission
Whistle-blowing booklet
Western Cape
Sanlam Golden Acre Building
21st Floor, Adderley Street
PO Box 2078
Cape Town
8001
Tel (021) 421 3980
Fax (021) 421 4060
Commissioner:
Mr L Goosen
Provincial Director:
Mr Paul Rockman
The Old Apostolic Church
ReplyDeleteDaily Home Tuition - Gauteng District
Saturday 18th June 2022
Confession of Faith
Serving of the three Holy Sacraments to the Souls in the Dead Region
Many people do not get the opportunity to be introduced to the Church while they are alive.
When they die, their spirits can come in contact with the Church and for them to receive salvation, they must receive the sacraments.
Only Jesus is the proxy for salvation, He alone is the way, the truth and the life (John 14:6). The spirit doesn’t need sacraments to return to God.
DeleteEcclesiastes 3:19-21
For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts;
even one thing befalleth them:
as the one dieth, so dieth the other;
yea, they have all one breath;
so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast:
for all is vanity. All go unto one place;
all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Ecclesiastes 12:6-8
Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher;
all is vanity.
Daniel 12:1-3
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:
and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:
and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament;
and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Please stop misleading your members and start reading your Bibles, for your sakes and the sakes of your members.
Mystery and Victory
Delete1 Corinthians 15:50-58
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;
neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery;
We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:
for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting?
O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin;
and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
Note: victory through our Lord Jesus Christ, not victory through a Fourfold Officer or a sacrament.
The Coming of the Lord
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Note: the dead in Christ shall rise first and then those that are alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, not at a sealing service through a Fourfold Officer receiving a sacrament.
The Old Apostolic Church
ReplyDeleteDaily Home Tuition - Gauteng District
Sunday 19th June 2022
Confession of Faith
The sacraments can however not physically be served to the souls without bodies and it is for this reason that (living) people are used as instruments.
A Fourfold Office and his wife represent the souls and they are served with the three sacraments on behalf of the souls.
1 Corinthians 15:29
Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?
1 Peter 4:6
For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
That’s very imaginative, but very far from the truth.
DeleteThe OAC don’t even believe that Jesus literally resurrected from the dead as Himself in the first person (Matthew 24:23-27, Luke 24:36-40, Acts 1:6-11, 1 Timothy 2:5-6 etc), so why does an OAC Fourfold Office even bother getting baptized for the dead? It’s a total contradiction of the OAC’s belief (or lack thereof). Go read the whole chapter (1 Corinthians 15) in context and you’ll see that Paul does not condone being baptized for the dead, especially those who don’t believe in the resurrection!. Note also that Paul says they and not us or we, he was therefore not speaking about himself or his congregations.
1 Peter 4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
The gospel was preached to them before they died, not after they died. There is absolutely no mention of Fourfold Officers or sacraments in those verses, let alone the rest of the Bible.
Romans 1:18-21
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;
but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
The OAC seem to base their faith on Plato instead of Scripture.
DeletePlato supported the idea of soul – body in our world and disembodied soul after death.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.
Soul (nephesh) is a breathing creature
Man is a system comprising a body and a soul
The soul is a self-aware entity which can think and issue commands.
The body is an entity consisting of the same elementary particles as the environment.
A soul is incomplete without the body, or cannot exist without the body, there are no disembodied souls and soulless bodies.
Consciousness is a property of the soul, not of the physical brain.
“Angels, like people, also consist of bodies and souls, but the difference is that the body of an angel is more spiritual” Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Lyady in his book Torah Or
My friend from IT explains it very basically as follows:
A computer without software is a brick, a computer can’t work without software and software can’t work without a computer. The soul is to the body what software is to a computer.