Anyone
for tenet?
OAC
Confession of Faith: First
Tenet: God, Creator:
“…There are many
questions that arise from the creation recorded in Genesis. Science claims that
the earth is millions of years old. The creation, according to Genesis, took
place some 4 000 years BC and adding 2014 gives about
6
000 years. [PSA 90:1-4] According to Scripture, Adam and Eve were the first
people to be created. It is however
clear that Adam and Eve were not the only people on earth. Read the Bible where
God made Cain a fugitive but set a mark upon him to protect him from other
people.[GEN 4:14-15]…”
To the author of this tenet:
Science also claims that there’s no such
thing as a spirit or a soul, and therefore, no afterlife. Science does not have
all the answers and you need to
discern between theory and fact. According to science the meaning of life is to
pass on your genes, you live, you die and that’s all there is to it, no ethics
involved. Science is the knowledge and wisdom of man. Scientific theories will keep
changing with each new discovery and as technology advances. Therefore the
scientific model of today may not be the scientific model of tomorrow.
Science explains what’s possible, faith goes
beyond possible because with God all things are possible (Matthew 19:23-26, Mark 10:23-27,
Mark 14:36,
Luke 18:25-27).
This is why people with faith are called believers.
A wicked and adulterous generation seeks
after a sign (Matthew
16:4). We walk by faith, not by sight (2 Corinthians 5:7). Faith is the
substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1).
Everything that was created, was created by eternal God, from everlasting to
everlasting (Proverbs
8:23, Psalms 90:2, John 1:1-3, Ephesians 1:4, John 17:5).
Your faith shouldn’t be based on science, you’ll be like a wave tossed about by
every wind of doctrine.
Do you choose science above God?
Do you choose the creation above the
Creator?
Christ is the Wisdom and Power of God (1 Corinthians
1:18-31).
Adam and Eve were the only people on earth before they had children, Cain was one
of their sons (Genesis
4:1). Cain was not an only child, Adam and Eve also had other sons
and daughters (Genesis
5:4). It is safe to assume that their children also had children (Genesis 5:7-30)
and so forth. God commanded Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply (Genesis 1:28).
Therefore it is hardly likely that it took them 130 years to produce only three
offspring (Genesis
5:3-4).
Consider the following:
- It takes about nine months for a child to be conceived and born
- Teenagers are fertile enough to produce offspring of their own
Do the math, by the time Cain set out
there would’ve been a sizable population already in existence (Genesis 4:16-17).
OAC
Confession of Faith: First Tenet: Creation: “…In
addition to yesterday’s statement, Cain, when he went out from the presence of
the Lord and dwelt in the land Nod, he found himself a wife and had a son by
the name of Enoch.[GEN 4:16-17 onwards]
Furthermore, it can be seen that Scripture refers to “the sons of God” that
took unto themselves as wives the “daughters of men” and that from them came a
nation that displeased the Lord due to their wickedness. [GEN 6:1-6]…”
To the author of this tenet:
In the Old Testament, the sons of God
refers to angels (Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7). Man was made a little lower than
the angels (Psalms
8:4-5, Hebrews 2:6-9). The angels that were sent to
earth sinned by lusting after the daughters of men (Genesis 6:2, Matthew 22:30,
2 Peter 2:4-5,
Jude 1:6).
In the New Testament, Adam is referred
to as the son of God because he was directly formed by God and God shared His
breath with him (Luke 3:38). Jesus is the Son of
God and He
was there from before the beginning (Genesis 1:1, Daniel 3:25, John 1:1-2,
John 8:56-58,
1
Corinthians 10:1-4). Only Jesus is able to give power to
men to become the sons of God when they receive Him and believe on his name (John 1:12-14).
As many as are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God (Romans 8:14).
The sons of God are blameless, harmless and without rebuke and shine as lights
in the world (Philippians
2:15). The world doesn’t know the sons of God (1 John 3:1-2).
OAC
Confession of Faith: First Tenet: Creation: “…Who
is the author of the book Genesis and when did the creation occur? Moses is the
author of Genesis and the date according to some Bibles, is 4 004 BC. However,
Moses was born much later, about 1 500 BC, and he wrote the scripture through
inspiration. [II TIM 3:16 & II PET
1:20-21] “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”; When is
the beginning? This is also clear from other portions of scripture, like [JOH 1:1-4]…”
To the author of this tenet:
God worked through Moses, the son of
Amram (member of the tribe of Levi) and Jochebed (Levi’s daughter). Moses was a
direct descendent of Levi (Exodus 6:16-20, Numbers 26:59) who was a direct
descendent of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Luke 3:34-38).
Jochebed hid Moses for three months and
when she could no longer hide him, she placed him in a little ark on the river
where Pharaoh’s daughter bathed (Exodus 2:2-3). Pharaoh’s daughter found him
and had compassion on him (Exodus 2:6). The Pharaoh’s daughter then hired
Jochebed to nurse Moses (Exodus 2:7-10). Jochebed instilled in Moses a
knowledge of his heritage and a love of his people which forty years in
Pharaoh’s court could not erase.
God revealed the entire Torah (including
Genesis,
Exodus,
Leviticus,
Numbers
and Deuteronomy)
to Moses. Moses took dictation from God and wrote as God instructed him.
Take note that the Torah consists of the
written and oral Torah. The oral Torah is the oral tradition for interpreting
the written Torah and the oral tradition would later be written down and be
known as the Talmud. The Talmud is nothing like the OAC’s “spiritual”
interpretation of Genesis. Jews are not figments of the
imagination, they physically exist to this present day and they trace their
heritage back to Moses.
“The
beginning of the Torah describes G-d's creation of the Universe. The account of
the six days of creation culminating in Shabbat, and of Adam and Eve in the
garden of Eden, is so simple that it can be taught to a young child. At the
same time it is wonderfully profound. The Talmud, Midrash and Zohar are ancient
Jewish works which explain at great length the significance of the opening
chapters of the Torah.
A point worth noting is that the universe, nature, is itself a
communication to us from G-d. The vastness, the boundless variety, the sense of
structure and the sense of a constant interplay of dynamic forces express something
about G-d, who causes every detail in the universe to exist. A painting in an
art gallery tells us something about the painter; existence tells us something
about G-d.” – Excerpt from ‘Nature as Divine
Communication’ by Dr. Tali Loewenthal, Director of Chabad Research Unit,
London, UK and a frequent contributor to the Chabad.org weekly Torah reading
section; based on the teachings of the Lubavitcher Rebbe
Some other points to take into
consideration:
- God had given Adam a language (Genesis 2:19-23), therefore Adam had the ability to communicate.
- Throughout Genesis the patriarchs kept a record of their generations (Genesis 5:1, Genesis 6:9, Genesis 10:1, Genesis 11:10, Genesis 11:27, Genesis 25:12, Genesis 25:19, Genesis 36:1, Genesis 37:2).
- Most modern scholars acknowledge that writing existed long before the time of Moses and Exodus 17:14 shows that writing was in common use in Moses’ day.
Everything in Scripture was written by God
and the actual identity of the transcriber is not important (2 Timothy
3:16-17).
There are OAC members that deny Moses
ever existed, which means they contradict the OAC’s first tenet. This places
them in a difficult position, on the one hand they teach that everything in the
Bible needs to be interpreted as an allegory, but by so doing they deny the
literal existence of those who wrote the books of the Bible, as well as those
who preached the gospel as eyewitnesses of what they saw.
An OAC member wrote: “...Moses is also referred to as the Scripture. John 5 ; 35 clearly says
that just reading the scripture is not enough for salvation. Therefore, Moses,
the Scripture cannot enter or receive the salvation...”
This is like saying that Wilbur Smith is also
referred to as a novel, and because he’s a novel, he’s not the literal author
of the novel. Did the Scripture write a book (Exodus 17:14, Deuteronomy
31:24, Joshua 8:31, Mark 12:26, Hebrews 9:19)?
This member clearly doesn’t know the
Bible and quotes verses out of context. The verses in my Bible do not
correspond to the OAC member’s statement.
John 5:35 He was a burning and a
shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
Regarding Moses, go read for yourself
the following verses in your Bible and decide for yourself if Moses received
salvation (Matthew
17:3-4, Mark 9:4-5, Luke 9:30-33, Luke 16:29-31,
Luke 24:27,
Luke 24:44,
John 5:46,
Hebrews
11:23-24, Revelation 15:3).
OAC
Confession of Faith: First Tenet: God, Creator of all Things: “…When reading the “history” of the creation, it appears as if there was a
lapse in time since the creation of man in [GEN
1:27] and when God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into
his nostrils the breath of life. [GEN
2:4-8] God made man on the sixth day: male and female created He them, but
thereafter a description is given of how Adam was formed and later, how Eve was
made out of the rib of Adam. How should this be interpreted?
[GEN 2: 7 & 22]…”
To the author of this tenet:
The verses in both chapters are describing
the same event, there is no lapse in time.
Matthew 19:4-5 And he answered and
said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made
them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave
father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one
flesh?
male and female (Genesis 1:27)
and
therefore
shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife:
and they shall be one flesh (Genesis 2:24).
This is also confirmed by Mark 10:6-8.
Jesus makes it clear that these are not two
separate accounts, but complemetary accounts referring to Adam and Eve.
Genesis 1 is the big picture which summarises the
outline of creation and culminates on the sixth day with the high point of
creation, the creation of man.
Genesis 2 gives a more detailed description of
the sixth day and the creation of Adam and Eve; and makes man the centre of
interest.
OAC
Confession of Faith: First Tenet: God, Creator of all Things: “…All the questions lead us to the conclusion that very little is known
about the mysteries of the natural creation of the heaven and earth, and that
the creation in the Bible refers to the creation of Spiritual things. [ROM 11:33-36] There are natural bodies
and there are spiritual bodies – the first Adam was made a living soul; the
last Adam was made a quickening spirit. The first man is of the earth, earthy,
the last man is the Lord from heaven. [I
COR 15: 40-49]…”
To the author of this tenet:
This tenet appears to overlook several
verses in the Bible:
Romans 1:18-21 For the wrath of God
is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who
hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is
manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things
of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the
things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are
without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as
God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their
foolish heart was darkened.
The creation in the Bible refers to all things visible and invisible (John 1:3,
Ephesians
3:9, Colossians
1:16, Revelation 4:11). We are the physical descendants of Adam and
Eve and we are living souls, pinch yourself and go look in the mirror.
Only Jesus is the quickening
spirit (John 4:14,
John 5:21,
John 5:25-29,
John 6:39-40,
John 6:63,
John 6:68,
John
11:25-26, John 14:6, Romans 8:10-11, Colossians 3:4,
1 John
5:11-12 etc.)
OAC
Confession of Faith: First Tenet: God, Creator of all Things: “…The natural body was first, and thereafter the spiritual. It is,
however, clear that flesh and blood (the physical) cannot inherit the kingdom
of God; neither can corruption inherit incorruption. As we bear the image of
the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. [I COR 15:49-50] It is clear that God is not a man, but spirit, and
that we must worship / serve Him in spirit and in truth. [NUM 23:19 & JOH 4:23-24]…”
To the author of this tenet:
You need to read further than flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
Let’s read that part in context with the subsequent verses:
1 Corinthians
15:50-54 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the
kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew
you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a
moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall
sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on
immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this
mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying
that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Later we read the following:
1 Thessalonians
4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning
them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have
no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them
also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you
by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming
of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord
himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the
archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise
first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with
them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be
with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one
God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who
gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Jesus is the Word (Logos) that was made flesh (John 1:14). This does NOT mean anybody who
receives a spoken word by some officer in a church now suddenly
becomes Jesus, there is only ONE Jesus who was physically crucified as an
atonement for our sins (Romans 3:23-26, Hebrews 7:22-28, Hebrews 9:11-15,
Hebrews 9:27-28,
1 John 2:1-6,
1 John 4:8-10).
God wants to be worshipped in
spirit and in truth which means you don’t need to be in a mountain or at Jerusalem in order
to worship Him:
John 4:21-24 Jesus saith unto
her, Woman, believe me,
the hour cometh, when ye
shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Ye worship ye know not
what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But
the hour cometh, and now
is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:
for the Father seeketh
such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship
him in spirit and in truth.
Worshipping Him in spirit means God is not confined
by geography, worshipping Him is not geographically dependent. This doesn’t
mean He wants to be worshipped in allegories,
metaphors, mysteries and lies.
OAC [II] Confession of Faith: First Tenet: God, Creator of all
Things:
“…The wonders of the creation will always be amazing to
us and makes us fully aware of the greatness and wisdom of God. God created it in the beginning. What or
who’s beginning? [JOB 38:4-11] God
made man a physical, natural being but also blew the breath of life into his
nostrils, thus making him a living soul. He created man in His image
(Spirit).
Man is therefore the crown of God’s creation and made to inherit His Kingdom. [JOH 18:36 and EZE 18:4]…”
To the author of this tenet:
This contradicts a previous tenet statement
which claimed “...the creation in the Bible refers to the
creation of Spiritual things...”
Job 38:4-11 points out God’s Divine Power and man’s
ignorance. See the previous chapter where Job had challenged God to answer him,
and now God is asking Job a series of questions which point out man’s inability
to understand God’s ways. Job wasn’t there in the beginning and the verses are
not implying Job’s beginning or any other individual person for that matter.
Beginning refers to the beginning of time, space and matter. The one cannot
exist without the other.
On a spiritual level, man’s relationship
to God sets him apart from all other living creatures. The relationship of God
to man throughout the Bible is represented as that of a father to his children.
Children usually have a strong resemblance to their parents. Adam and Eve were
disobedient and corrupted the image of God within themselves. As physical
descendants of Adam and Eve, that damaged likeness has been passed on to us and
mankind still bears the scars of sin (Romans 5:12).
Redemption is only available by God’s
grace through faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:4-9). He restores the original
image when we put off our old corrupt ways and become renewed in the spirit of
our minds (Ephesians
4:17-24). Only through Christ are we made new (2 Corinthians 5:14-21). God wants
us to be more like Him so that we can be called the sons of God (1 John 3:1-3).
On a physical level, as children
resemble their parents, so too do we resemble our Father and Creator. Even
though God is a Spirit, we still bear a physical resemblance to Him. Jesus Christ lived in human form among
His disciples, remained in human form when He was transfigured (Matthew 17:1-9),
and appeared in human form to His disciples after the resurrection. He appeared
in human form to Stephen (Acts 7:55-56) and when He returns He will again
appear in human form (Acts 1:9-11). In more ways than one, He is the
image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15).
OAC
Confession of Faith: First Tenet: The Creation of God: “…Through the Word, God created the heaven and earth, and said: “let there
be light”. The Word of God, the light of knowledge and understanding, also came
into our hearts, thus enabling us to discern between light and darkness; i.e.
good and evil.
[II COR
4:3-6]…”
To the author of this tenet:
John 1:1-3 In the beginning was
the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by
him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
According to Strong’s,
the word “word” in the New Testament is translated from the Greek word logos and is defined as:
something said (including the thought);
by implication a topic (subject of
discourse), also reasoning (the
mental faculty) or motive; by
extension a computation; specifically
(with the article in John) the Divine Expression
(that is, Christ): - account,
cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent,
matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say (-ing), shew,
X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings,
treatise, utterance, word, work.
In the beginning the
Word already was which means the
Word is eternal and existed before the beginning. Ten times in Genesis 1
we read “God said”. By the word of the
LORD were the heavens made (Psalms 33:6). John sums these all up as the Word that created all things.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we
beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of
grace and truth.
Notice that John (an
apostle) is speaking in the past tense and he’s not referring to his own words
or those of the other apostles. Neither is he referring to his own flesh or
that of the other apostles. Jesus is the only begotten of the Father
and John was an eyewitness of Jesus the Messiah, whose name is called ‘The Word of
God’ (Revelation
19:13). When John names the three that bear record in heaven, he
calls Him ‘Word’ rather than ‘Son’ (1 John 5:7). Because Christ is the Word, it not only refers to
the Father that begot Him but also to everything made by Him.
John 1:4-5 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
- Jesus is the light of the world (John 8:12, John 9:5)
- Jesus said He is the way, the truth and the life (John 14:6)
OAC members twist John 1:1 out of context to mean blind
obedience to the spoken words of
their ministry and your supposed “beginning” refers to
the day you heard their “word” and saw their “light” (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12).
John the son of Zebedee and one of the
twelve apostles was an original eyewitness of the life of Jesus (Mark 1:19-20, Mark 3:17, John 21:2). John’s purpose for
writing the book is best described in his own words.
John 20:30-31 And many other signs
truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this
book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Our dependence should not be on religious
groups who
believe their own words empowers them to become “saviours” (Mark 12:29-34, John 17:3, Acts 4:10-12, 1 Corinthians
8:4-6, Galatians 3:26, Ephesians 2:8-9, Ephesians 4:6,
1 Timothy
2:5, 1
John 4:14).
When Jesus said “I am”,
it was not a blank statement for cults thousands of years later to misuse this
statement to refer to themselves. When Jesus said “I am”,
He in no way, shape or form implied “we are” (Matthew 24:5, Mark 13:6).
“I am” is a singular expression from the
mouth of Jesus, it’s not meant as a plural expression
from the mouths of mere mortals.
- John 6:48 I am that bread of life.
- John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
- John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
- John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
- John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
OAC
Confession of Faith: First Tenet: The Creation of God: “…We now realise that our former world (existence) was void and without
form; and that in our beginning God also created light (understanding) through
the Word. Thus we became the sons of God, born, not of blood, nor of the will
of flesh etc. but of God. [JOH 1:1-14]…”
To the author of this tenet:
See my comments on the previous tenet.
Regarding our former selves also known as the ‘old man’, there are other verses
which are far more appropriate (Ephesians 4:17-32, Hebrews 10:19-39, 1 Peter 1:13-25
etc). You’ll notice that these verses do not refer to any type of beginning but
rather to renewal or rebirth. There’s really no need to twist scripture out of
context to get this point across.
Only Jesus is able to give power to men to become
the sons of God when they receive Him and believe on his name (John 1:12-14).
As many as are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God (Romans 8:14).
The sons of God are blameless, harmless and without rebuke and shine as lights
in the world (Philippians
2:15). The world doesn’t know the sons of God (1 John 3:1-2).
OAC
Confession of Faith: First Tenet: The Creation of God: “…God creates man, through Christ (the Church), in His image and likeness
and blows the breath of life in his nostrils (Holy Ghost). Through the Church
we are born anew and receive the mark of the Lamb in our foreheads, sealed unto
eternal life. [EZE 36:24-28 and EPH 1:13]…”
To the author of this tenet:
Ephesians 5:23-32 For the husband is
the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he
is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ,
so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your
wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot,
or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife
loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and
cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his
body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his
father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one
flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Notice that Christ and the church are
two seperate entities just as a husband and wife are two seperate people. The church is NOT
your saviour.
OAC
Confession of Faith: The Creation: “…In Genesis, God created the two great lights; Christ, the Sun of
righteousness, and the light of the world. [MAL
4:1-2 & LUK 1:76-79] The second light is the moon reflecting the light
of the sun, to guide those in darkness until the morning star shall shine to
announce the coming of the day. This signifies the evangelistic powers in the
Church of God, [REV 2:24-29 and DAN 12:3]…”
To the author of this tenet:
Genesis 1:14-19 And God said, Let
there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the
night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon
the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light
to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars
also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the
earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light
from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the
morning were the fourth day.
You will notice that the greater light was made to rule the day and the lesser
light to rule the night, and that they were
not made in the beginning, but only on day
four.
Christ existed before day one (Genesis 1:1, John 1:1-3).
Man was only made on day six (Genesis 1:26-31).
Genesis is the first book of the Old Testament.
The Old Testament was written long before the New Testament. The church did not
truly come into existence until the New Testament (Matthew 16:18, Ephesians
1:20-23, Ephesians 4:7-12). Pentecost marked the
beginning of the church as a functioning body (the body of Christ) when the Spirit was poured out on that day about 2,000
years ago (Acts
1:4-5, Acts 2:1-4, Acts 2:41-47). The book of Joel
was also written after Genesis and Joel the prophet prophesied about
the pouring out of the spirit (Joel 2:28-32). Joel’s prophecy was fulfilled
in the New Testament on the day of Pentecost about 2,000 years ago (Acts 2:14-21).
The disciples were later called Christians (Acts 11:26, 1 Peter 4:16).
The OAC on the other hand originated in South
Africa (1927) and they refer to themselves as “apostolics”.
OAC
Confession of Faith: First Tenet: The Creation of God: “…Has anyone heard of the kind of trees that were in the garden of
Eden? The tree of life and the tree of
knowledge of good and evil – some people refer to the latter as an apple tree,
but it rather sounds like spiritual qualities that man should / should not
partake of.
[GEN 2:8-9]…”
To the author of this tenet:
After their creation, Adam and Eve were
given only one commandment.
Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God
commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely
eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of
it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
When God created the world, He clearly
defined right (obedience) from wrong (disobedience). One could choose to be
disobedient, the choice was clear. If God had not given them the choice, then
they would have been mere robots doing what they were programmed to do. The
ability to make decisions and having choices is what true freedom is all about,
and every decision has a consequence, good or bad.
The tree of knowledge had an affect on
Eve’s senses:
- Eve listened to the serpent’s seduction
- Eve saw that the tree was pleasant to her eyes
- Eve touched and then tasted the fruit
When Adam and Eve ate of this tree, their
senses became more powerful than their intellect. Forbidden fruit has the
tendency of changing one’s frame of reference from universal to personal, from spiritual
to carnal. There
was nothing evil about the tree, it was the act of disobedience that was
spiritually detrimental.
Before they ate from the forbidden tree
they saw each other as souls with the body merely serving as a covering.
Because they were focused on the spiritual side, they weren’t aware of their
naked bodies.
After eating from the forbidden tree
their perception of the physical world changed, their bodies became a
distraction from their souls and they were ashamed of their naked bodies. Their
guilty conscience also caused them to try and hide from the LORD God.
Adam and Eve had to put on clothes to
shift the focus from their external nakedness so that their souls could shine
through. This explains why animals never feel the compulsion to put on clothes
because they don’t have divine souls.
As physical descendants of Adam and Eve,
we can identify with the seductive power of our senses.
1 Peter 2:11 Dearly beloved, I
beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war
against the soul;
Due to their disobedience, they lost
access to the tree of life which would have helped them to live forever (Genesis 3:22).
To live forever in a sinful state would be agony. God in His great mercy
provides eternal life through Christ to spare us the misery of an endless
existence in our sinful condition.
Romans 5:12-17 Wherefore, as by
one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon
all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world:
but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from
Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude
of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as
the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one
many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which
is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by
one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation,
but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one
man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of
grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Through Christ we will be resurrected again to see the
tree of life in the New
Jerusalem (1 Corinthians
15:50-57, 1 Thessalonians
4:13-18, Revelation 2:7, Revelation 22:2-5, Revelation
22:14). The curse will be no more, darkness will be forever banished
and Eden will be restored.
Jesus bore our sins in His own
body on the tree so that we, being dead to sins, should live unto
righteousness, by His stripes are we healed (Acts 5:30, Acts 10:39, Acts 13:29, 1 Peter 2:24). Jesus on the cross became our spiritual tree of life.
OAC
Confession of Faith: First Tenet: The Creation of God: “…Has anyone ever come across a serpent (snake) that can speak? The
serpent is the devil, Satan, who still lures the souls away from God through
disobedience and better knowledge. He “speaks” to us through our minds and our
“friends” as “angels of the light”. [II
COR 11:14 & REV 12:9]…”
To the author of this tenet:
The OAC’s definition of the devil is one’s
own will. I remember a popular Afrikaans saying in the OAC which said “...duiwel is verkeerd gespel in
die Bybel, dis eintlik my wil...”
For those of you who don’t understand Afrikaans, they’re
saying “…devil is spelled wrong in the Bible, it’s
actually my will...”
It’s interesting that only one verse is
quoted from 2
Corinthians and that the preceding and subsequent verses are
omitted. Let’s see 2 Corinthians 11:14 along with those other verses.
2 Corinthians
11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming
themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is
transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his
ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end
shall be according to their works.
This sounds very much like the OAC who claim to be the apostles of Christ. Satan is the ultimate source behind
every false church.
The devil however is not a symbol of
evil inside a person or a product of human imagination. It was the devil that
tempted Jesus in the wilderness (Matthew 4:1-11). A devil is able
to possess people (Matthew 12:22). The devil was a murderer from
the beginning and is the father of lies (John 8:44). When we submit ourselves to God,
the devil will flee when we resist him (James 4:7).
Remember, Adam and Eve were the only
people at the time which is why the serpent was used as a medium through
which to speak. Speaking animals are nothing strange, later in the Bible we
read of another animal which was used as a medium by the LORD to speak to
Balaam (Numbers
22:28-31).
Genesis 3:1-5 Now the serpent was
more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he
said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the
garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the
trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the
garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest
ye die.
And the serpent said unto
the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye
eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be
opened,
and ye shall be as gods,
knowing good and evil.
Did you notice the lies spoken by the serpent
to Eve?
- Ye shall not surely die
- your eyes shall be opened
- ye shall be as gods
These lies sound strangely familiar to
the doctrines and teachings of false apostles.
The serpent doesn’t always have a
negative connotation. Moses made a serpent of brass and put it upon a pole. If
any man was bitten by a serpent, he would live by looking at the serpent of
brass (Numbers
21:9). Likewise Jesus was lifted up so that whoever believes
in Him would not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:14-15).
OAC [Ш] Confession of Faith: First Tenet: The Creation of God: “…By the grace of God He created us as spiritual people through Christ,
the Church, to bear spiritual fruits with an eternal value. [EPH
2:1-10 & ROM 8:9]…”
To the author of this tenet:
Ephesians 2:8-13 For by grace are
ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift
of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his
workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before
ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time
past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is
called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were
without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers
from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the
blood of Christ.
Hebrews 9:22-28 And almost all
things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no
remission. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the
heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with
better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places
made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now
to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself
often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with
blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of
the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away
sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to
die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the
sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time
without sin unto salvation.
I find it strange that you write about your disdain for science and then proceed to use mathematics to prove your point. Mathematics is the foundation of science. It is the same mathematics that is the basis for the theory of evolution.
ReplyDeleteI don’t have a disdain for science, I enjoy science and I think science has been very useful. Science is a method of inquiry and commonly based on empirical or measurable evidence. There’s a place for science and there’s a place for faith.
DeleteMathematical models are developed to try and explain what’s possible. They are prostheses for the imagination. People who make mathematical models for a living don’t actually believe they’re describing reality; they’re merely trying to expose what’s possible.
Evolution has been debated ever since the time of the ancient Greek philosophers. Darwin then came up with the theory of natural selection. Darwin said that all initial hypotheses are eventually modified and he believed that as more fossil sites were discovered, over time they would show species gradually transforming into newer ones. This didn’t turn out to be the case. What was observed was that species tended to remain stable over time. The coelacanth has remained unchanged for the last “400 million years” and is still swimming in our oceans.
Like I said, the scientific model of today may not be the scientific model of tomorrow.
Creationist and Intelligent design proponents often like to describe the theory of evolution as just a theory. This relies on equivocating the common usage of the term theory (meaning "idea" or "guess" — more literally speaking, "hypothesis" or "conjecture") with the scientific meaning. Theories are the single highest level of scientific achievement and nothing is just a theory — that would be like saying Bill Gates is just a multibillionaire. Additionally, one might say that the notion of evolution is "just a theory" in the same way that cell theory and gravity (fundamental principles of biology and physics, respectively) are "just theories".
ReplyDeleteThis argument played out with hilarious ramifications in the recent decision of the Florida State Board of Education to teach evolution as a "scientific theory". Apparently, the creationists on the Florida SBOE thought that this was a "compromise" — by making evolution a "scientific theory" at law, they thought, it would weaken the position of evolution. After all, then it would be "just a theory," right?[2] Wrong! This "compromise" actually puts evolution on the exactly right footing — at the highest tier of science — and ensures that students will be taught about what the term "scientific theory" really means, hopefully eventually drawing the sting of the colloquial meaning confusion.[3]
To quickly counter this argument, you can say, "Gravity is just a theory too" or "Creation is just a myth", and they will be forced to turn to some other argument.
You quoted Mad Max verbatim on BUNGiE (The Big Bang/evolution is "only a theory"). Let me answer your comment with quotes too:
Delete"Charles Darwin, himself the father of evolution in his later days, gradually became aware of the lack of real evidence for his evolutionary speculation and wrote: `As by this theory, innumerable transitional forms must have existed. Why do we not find them embedded in the crust of the earth? Why is not all nature in confusion instead of being, as we see them, well defined species?" — H. Enoch, Evolution or Creation, (1966), p. 139.
"Not one change of species into another is on record . . we cannot prove that a single species has been changed." –*Charles Darwin, My Life and Letters.
The Big Bang theory is “only a theory”:
https://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html
https://www.livescience.com/49958-theory-no-big-bang.html
You’re digressing off the topic with straw man arguments, faith does not disprove science and science does not disprove faith. My God created everything and science is man’s way of understanding God’s creation.
Gravity is also just a theory.
ReplyDelete...and evolution has been proven and I can name several examples:
1. Tests that was done on fruit flies.
2. Experiments done on bacteria,
3. Experiments done on lab mice,
4. Evolution of the wolf to the common domestic dog.
5. Domestication of farm animals.
6. Development of GMO produce.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_evolution#Fruit_flies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication
Did you read the paragraph regarding experimental evolution? Let me recap:
DeleteExperimental evolution is the use of experiments or controlled field manipulations to explore evolutionary dynamics. Evolution may be observed in the laboratory as populations adapt to new environmental conditions and/or change by such stochastic processes as random genetic drift. With modern molecular tools, it is possible to pinpoint the mutations that selection acts upon, what brought about the adaptations, and to find out how exactly these mutations work.
This type of evolution is referred to as microevolution. The experiments reveal adaptations and mutations of various populations. The fruit flies are still fruit flies, E. Coli bacteria are still E. Coli bacteria, mice are still mice, wolves and dogs are still canines, cows are still cows etc. Do mutational experiments and the careful manipulation of genes by skilled researchers in a laboratory prove lack of intelligence and intelligent design?
My previous quote was from Rationalwiki.
ReplyDeleteMy previous quote was from various sources, including Darwin.
DeleteWhat is the bar limit for a normal vehicle tyre?
ReplyDeleteGo ask your “owergestelde” ;-)
DeleteThere is some books I could suggest: Die Groot Gedagte by Gideon Joubert. Joubert was a member of the Dutch Reformed Church in the Strand (Western Cape) and in his book gives a layman's explanation of why evolution is in God's plan. Another book is Genesis and the Big Bang by Gerald Schroeder, explaining evolution from a Jewish viewpoint, and how evolution fits into the Old Testament.
ReplyDeleteI could also suggest books written by Carl Sagan, the non-fiction books of Arthur C. Clarke, as well as Terry Pratchett's The Science of Diskworld series.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution#Contemporary_approaches is a good link for further information.
Which book was your favorite?
DeleteI don’t know if the anonymous person above read any of those books, I’m sure that if she did, she would realize that the OAC’s so-called spiritual interpretation of the Bible is completely wrong.
DeleteRegarding Gerald Schroeder, he gives very good explanations of how science and the Bible are compatible with one another.
He discusses how Biblical time and scientific time are one and the same, just from different perspectives: http://geraldschroeder.com/wordpress/?page_id=53
Then he also has a good little five minute video proving the existence of God using science: http://geraldschroeder.com/wordpress/?page_id=211
Keep in mind that the two major proponents of creationism is Kent Hovind, who is a convicted criminal who was jailed for tax fraud, and lied about his qualifications; and Ken Ham who is currently involved in a shady deal to convert his leisure park into a non-profit to avoid paying tax that he promised the state would make (he is not keeping his word).
ReplyDeleteCreationism is the religious belief that the universe and life originated from specific acts of divine creation.
DeleteOAC [II] Confession of Faith: First Tenet: God, Creator of all Things:
“…The wonders of the creation will always be amazing to us and makes us fully aware of the greatness and wisdom of God. God created it in the beginning. ..”
“…God made man a physical, natural being…”
“… Man is therefore the crown of God’s creation…”
Do you believe that God created everything?
The OAC is Theistic Evolutionists. We believe that God created and formed via evolution. We are not creationists. Big difference.
DeleteTheistic evolution is also known as evolutionary creationism. If you say that God created and formed then you are a creationist.
DeleteThe very rare and difficult to come-by DVD by Rob Bell "Everything is Spiritual" is also helpful in understanding the true creation perspective.
ReplyDeleteThe Christian philosopher and Church Father St. Augustine also explained the existence of God in a way that is in line with Theistic Evolution. He described a God that exist outside time, and who is not dependent to linear time. But ok, Temporal Mechanics (yes it exist theoretically, and it is what the people at the hadron collider is playing with) and Quantum Physics is probably above your level of comprehension.
One day I decided to find out the time. All day long I asked different people the time but everyone I asked kept giving me a different answer…
DeleteYou clearly do not understand the concept of time.
DeleteYou clearly did not catch the joke, I was humoring you with regards to your attempted insult: “…probably above your level of comprehension…”
Delete